Harsh Morality - Combined answers

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 121109


Del replies:
> > No, I'm not the one doing that : that's the way things are 
> > presented in the books. More precisely, anyone who doesn't see 
> > that Harry and DD are right is evil. I've always claimed that 
> > morality is highly dependent on many things, including past 
> > experiences and emotional circumstances. But in the books, those 
> > things don't matter. The fact that Percy was overstressed and 
> > badly hurt by what his father told him, the fact that Seamus and 
> > Marrietta were stuck between conflicting loyalties, the fact that 
> > Harry looks so much like Snape's past tormentor, all those things 
> > are presented as not mattering, not being any kind of excuse, and 
> > those people are presented not only as wrong but even evil for 
> > making the wrong choices they made. I happen to disagree strongly.
 
Hickengruendler:
> In all respect, but I happen to disagree with about everything you 
> wrote. I already gave my opinion about Seamus in my previous post. 
> I stand by it and just want to add, that there were several scenes, 
> where Seamus wanted to talk too Harry before they made up. IMO, the 
> books made it obvious that Seamus just needed more informations, 
> and that he is not solely to blame for the rift between him and 
> Harry, and I must admit, that I am surprised that anyone thinks he 
> is presented as downright wrong or even evil. 


SSSusan:
Yes!  Thank you for this remark.  I'm not sure how we seem to have 
got to the place of saying *all* the characters are either good 
[believe Harry & DD] or **evil.**  Isn't there room for uncertainty 
about most of the characters at this point?  For someone who makes 
lots of bad choices but isn't actually evil?  For someone who doesn't 
believe Harry but isn't actually evil?  How 'bout that person as 
simply uninformed, misguided or wrong?  

Now, if there is *A* moment of choice -- side with The Order or Voldy 
& the DEs; choose to do something to help or choose to turn away and 
do nothing -- then I can see saying someone has chosen evil.  But 
Seamus?  As Hickengreundler said in his prior post, Seamus *wanted* 
to know more, was mostly likely quite willing to listen to Harry, but 
he hit Harry at the wrong moment and didn't get the info he wanted.  
So he blew Harry off.  Is that EVIL?  Um, not in my book.  It was an 
unfortunate situation, that's all, and Harry deserves much of the 
blame for it, so how can Seamus be evil?  I don't think JKR meant for 
us to think he was.

As for Percy, I'm still reserving judgment.  For me much depends on 
where he goes from here, what we find out about his intentions [has 
he been acting based on some moral system in which he fully believed? 
has he been acting soley out of greed and ambition?]  To say we know 
for sure that Percy is evil doesn't make sense to me, nor do I think 
JKR has "told" us, "Oh, yes, definitely.  Can't you see?  Percy is 
evil!"  No, I think we're *meant* to be struggling with "the issue of 
Percy" at this time:  what to make of him; where he'll go; what his 
motivations are; where his loyalties truly lie.

Some of the characters are evil.  But to try, at this point in the 
story, to class every character as either good or evil is just not 
sensible imo.  I mean, *who says* these things [extenuating 
circumstances, mitigating factors, incomplete information] don't 
matter?  I mean, WE'RE here talking about all of them, evaluating 
whether any existed in Marietta's case, in Hermione's case with DJU & 
the centaurs, etc.  Are you saying, Del, that JKR has written the 
books in such a way that it's CLEAR that she's telling us there's no 
gray?  If it were that clear, we wouldn't be trading posts about 
who's good, who's evil, who's "not there yet," who's misguided, who's 
justified in X circumstance,....

I think JKR's end points are very black and white:  Harry & DD & The 
Order's cause are Good; Voldy & the DEs are Evil.  But not every 
character and behavior has been classified as Good or Evil based 
solely on whether s/he/it aligns with Harry/DD or Voldy.  We're not 
even SURE about some characters and their alignments!

Siriusly Snapey Susan