[HPforGrownups] Potterverse Destiny (was Re: C. S. Lewis and Potterverse Destiny)

[Vivamus]

No: HPFGUIDX 121290

> Laurasia:
> > In order to give us total freedom of choice we also need to 
> be given a 
> > chance *not* to choose anything, ie to stick with fate.
> > 
> > To choose, or not to choose, that is the question.
> > 
> > In order to see the importance of choice we also need to see fate. 
> > JKR and DD's reprise 'choices more than ability' only works 
> if we have 
> > both. IMO, JKR has included instances of fate- prophecies, school 
> > houses, similarities between parent and child, etc. because it 
> > demonstrates how easy it is to give up choice.
> 
> 
> SSSusan:
> I absolutely agree that the characters have the freedom to choose or 
> to choose not to choose, but I don't see the latter as equalling 
> Fate.  I really think what Neil Peart wrote in one of my favorite 
> Rush songs is true:  "If you choose not to decide, you still have 
> made a choice." 
> 
> JKR was asked flat out if she believed in fate, and she said, "No. I 
> believe in hard work and luck and that the first often leads to the 
> second" [The Scotsman, 10/04].  I think she may use elements that 
> seem like fate in the books, such as the prophecies, but they'll be 
> overshadowed by choice.
> 
> Siriusly Snapey Susan

Vivamus:
Excellent point, SSSusan, and thank you, Laurasia, for your kind comment and
good thoughts earlier.

I wonder if we are not thinking of different things when we use the word
"Fate".  On the one hand, there is the common understanding of "fate" as the
perversity of the universe in general, which sometimes seems to act
randomly, and at other times as if there were conscious purpose to the
things that befall us.  On the other hand, there is the classical
understanding of the Fates, who (my memory of this is very foggy) were blind
goddesses who predetermined the time of one's death, as well as causing bad
things to happen to us, and (rarely) good things as well.  (My apologies for
inaccuracies in that; it's been a *lot* of years since I read it.)  On the
*other* other hand (the gripping hand), there is the goddess Wyrd (sp?), who
much more actively and capriciously manipulates lives.  (Wasn't Destiny
another name for Wyrd in an associated culture?)

It seems to me that most people, when they talk about fate, talk about it as
if they lived in an impersonal universe, but as if the future were
consciously controlled.  Sort of a blending of the three ways of looking at
it.  As in, there is no One who determines what will happen, but somehow the
future is irrevocably set, and we are unable to control it.  I suspect, when
JKR was answering that question, she was addressing that understanding of
"fate."

Contrasted with that view of the universe, though, JKR is a Christian, from
what I've read.  What makes that most interesting to me is that she is (from
what I've heard) a member of a denomination that used to, at least, have the
strongest view of predetermination of all the many branches of Christianity.
So here is someone who is a member of a church that used to categorically
deny free will, yet writes such magnificent illustrations in story of
strength of free will that can move the stars, if I understand what the
centaurs are saying.   

It does make me wonder if she ever gets picked on, in a friendly way, by the
members or clergy of her church about her point of view.

Vivamus, who absolutely believes in destiny (with a small d), but also
believes it is also dependent upon free will