Draco and Slytherin House (was: Harsh Morality - Combined answers)

[nrenka]

No: HPFGUIDX 121348


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "horridporrid03" 
<horridporrid03 at y...> wrote:

Opening salvo: Salazar is something of a wild-card.  One-time best 
friends to Godric, leaving the school over the blood issue, leaving 
a giant homicidal snake in a seekrit room in the basement.  It 
doesn't look that good, really.

> Betsy:

<snip canon: Binns' discussion> 

> So when he tells the students that S. Slytherin, "disliked 
> taking students of Muggle parentage, beliving them to be 
> untrustworthy," (ibid) I had a sudden understanding of where S. 
> Slytherin may have developed his distrust of outsiders.  It's an 
> understandable complex for those under persecution.  There's a 
> discussion thread going on right now  on how wise Hermione was to 
> open up the DA group to outsiders, so S. Slytherin's view on 
> taking in children of the enemy shouldn't seem unfamilier.

It raises the question of why he is the isolate of the three, 
though; the others apparently had no problem, and per the Sorting 
Hat, Hufflepuff was actively opposed to his policy.

> And then, later we get this statement from Ron.  "I always knew 
> Salazar Slytherin was a twisted old loony, [..] But I never knew 
> he started all this pure-blood stuff." (ibid, pg 152)  Ron has 
> been set up from the beginning as the keeper of common wizard 
> knowlege.  Isn't it a bit strange that it's not commonly known 
> that Slytherin is pure-blood crazed?

Ron seems to know as much as the plot requires, and no more. :)  
Contra this, it then becomes interesting as to where Tom Riddle 
picked up the "Slytherin's noble work" idea.  Given that we're 
talking to Young!Tom, it seems probable that he got it from 
SOMEWHERE.  What is unclear is whether it is more solidly 
historically founded or a projection.  Again, given the SH's 
statement, I now lean more towards the former.

<snip>

> If Slytherin House is known to not have any Muggle-borns, as all 
> the other victims are, why doesn't Lee Jordan raise that point as 
> well?  Granted, Jordan isn't a detective, and he's playing to the 
> room, but still, it suggests that perhaps Slytherin is no longer 
> perfectly pure-blooded (if it ever was).

It seems to be speaking more of the fact that no Slytherins are 
getting nailed.  This makes sense, of course, with Tom Riddle 
Slytherin Fanatic controlling the snake.  Lee, competitively minded 
that he is, picks up on the House thing first: perhaps because if 
you say 'Slytherin', it's just explicitly *known* that there are no 
Muggleborns there.

[BTW, Tom Riddle is a very unclear case.  Halfbloods (wizard/muggle, 
not 'halfbloods' like Harry) generally admitted, or exceptions made 
because of the lineage?  Also unclear.]

> So, though Harry and friends have a clear dislike and distrust for 
> Slytherin House, I'm kind of doubtful that this distrust is 
> accurate.  Which makes me wonder if the Slytherins really do need 
> to do some sort of public mea culpa.  They may feel like the 
> Gryffindor House owes them some sort of public statement too.

Funny, I didn't see Gryffindor House leading the Inquisitorial 
Squad, which is what I was primarily thinking of.  Even though it 
was Draco's claque, and other Slytherins were not necessarily 
involved, they were still the beneficiaries of the IS, per the gems 
in the hourglass at the end.  Like it or not, as they took the free 
ride, so they have some obligation to disavow the results--if they 
don't feel like accepting some of the blame for helping perpetuate 
the conditions.  Sitting back and benefiting while keeping your head 
down is a very Slytherin way to behave.  In JKR's world, it doesn't 
seem to be a very ethical way to behave--hence the possible need for 
public airings of grievances.  I could be wrong, of course. :)

Not to mention that we don't have canon for all of them, but a good 
number of DEs are Slytherin alumni.  There's a complex of linkages 
between interest/use of the Dark Arts, belief in the pureblood 
ideology, and following Voldemort.  In Slytherin, where that 
ideology is encouraged, it's no shock that DEs come out of there.  
It's not unique to Slytherin House and it's not a complete profile 
of the House, but it seems substantial.

> Plus, if Slytherin House has to completely "disavow its 
> foundational idea[s]," would it still be Slytherin?

Maybe the House system itself is doomed.  But per the Sorting Hat in 
OotP, Ravenclaw and Gryffindor chose their students on 
characteristics.  Helga took everyone, giving her the high moral 
ground.  But Slytherin's sine qua non was an assignation of quality 
based on the purity of blood.  Ambitious and talented Muggleborns 
are and were right out, so far as we know--with evidence that that 
is the case, and none that it isn't.

Initially well-intentioned or not, we are now told that again, the 
sine qua non is blood, making Slytherin the House based on the idea 
of "Who's your daddy?"

I don't think that method of choosing students and assigning 
differential value to human life can be productive in any way.  
There's a hierarchy implied in the statement as well; some people 
are purer of blood than others, so we have a spectrum, not merely a 
differentation of yes or no.  We see that in Bellatrix' ravings, 
wherein Harry is inferior, but he's better than someone like 
Hermione.

<snip>

> Betsy:
> I can kind of take or leave the interviews...  Depending on 
> whether or not they support my arguments <vbeg>.  My main hangup 
> on what JKR says about Draco is that at this point, from what 
> we've read, he *is* a bad boy.  *If* JKR is planning on a surprise 
> redemption or something, I think she'd quite happily lead folks 
> astray during interviews.

He does fit some of the criteria of a bad boy, although he is 
distinctly lacking in objective qualities of attractiveness. ;)  You 
should go and join Pippin in the "JKR is lying to us!" corner, 
though.  I think she's very shifty when people are on to something, 
but I don't feel that in her Draco responses.  She's more "huh?" 
about people liking him than anything.

-Nora goes and hunts for the blue bottle...