Percy Brasco?.

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 121601


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, ReturnOfTheMutt at a... wrote:
>  
> In a message dated 1/9/2005 6:06:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
> bboyminn at y... writes:
> 
> Umbridge  on the otherhand acted with total disregard for any harm, 
> ... as in illegally, and without mercy or true provocation 
> attempting to utterly destroy Harry (equal to cold-blooded murder 
> in my book) because he was saying things that were /inconvenient/ 
> to the Ministry.


> Mary sez:  
> Harry was being watched while at the Dursley's.  It would be 
> completely irresponsible of Dumblerdore for the higher ups in the 
> OOtP not to have known what was going on at their house.  

bboyminn:

I'm slightly confused by your reply. I'm breaking it here because I'm
assuming, the above is a single independant thought. I'm not sure what
you mean by '...going on at their house...'. Are you saying that
Dumbledore should have had advanced warning about the Dementor attack?
That Dumbledore should have been able to gather other stronger
evidence after the fact to support Harry's position? 

Harry was protected in the Privet Drive neighborhood. He was suppose
to have a wizard escort where ever he went. Unfortunately, Mundungus
skipped out on his job and left the scene. That left Harry
unprotected. If Mundungus had stayed, he could have fought the
Dementors and prevented Harry from performing magic. That was
Dumbledore's intent, to have someone on the scene at all times to
prevent Harry from performing any magic under any circumstance.

Again, I'm not sure what it is you are referring to that Dumbledore
should have known.



> Mary continues:
>
> So, Dumbledore, for the greater good, left Harry in a situation 
> where he suffered because the fact  that it set Harry up to be the 
> saviour of the wizarding world made it  right. It was for the 
> greater good, and what happened to Harry in the meantime was 
> irrevelant.
>  

bboyminn:

I'm taking this as a whole new thought, referring to Dumbledore
leaving Harry as a baby to be raised by the Dursleys. 

First, while Dumbledore clearly knew that Harry's stay with the
Dursleys would not be the most pleasant or rewarding, I don't think
Dumbledore could know the full extent or nature of Harry's treatment
by the Dursleys. Certainly he had the overview, but I question the
extent to which he knew or was capable of knowing the details.

Second, Harry was at the Dursleys, not because that was the sweetest
place to live, but because that was the place where he would have the
greatest protection from Voldemort and the Death Eaters. Only as a
secondary aspect does he also grow up away from the adoration of the
wizard world.

Sometimes the things that are /best/ for us, are not the most pleasant
for us. Through the 'Protection of Blood' Charm, staying at the
Dursley's gave Harry the greatest margin of safety and protection, far
greater than any other possible option. Safety took precedence over
/pleasant/, and that seems a very reasonable choice.


> Mary concludes:
>
> Umbridge was trying to uphold what she thought of as good. The only  
> difference between Umbridge's actions and Dumbledore's actions are
> a) we *know* that Dumbledore is right, and b) Dumbledore didn't 
> commit any harm with his own hands.


bboyminn:

Like all bad/evil people Umbridge did NOT think the equivalent of
murdering Harry was a /Good/ thing to do. She attempted to utterly
destroy Harry simple because he was saying inconvenient things that
didn't serve her or her boss. That's a very small provocation for the
equivalent of murder, and there is no way to convince me that Umbridge
thought it was morally or legally right or morally or legally justified. 

Like all bad/evil people, she simple didn't care that it was wrong, it
served her selfish self-centered needs, and she put those selfish
needs above any moral or legal standard. She knew it was wrong and
bad, but she didn't care. That lack of caring is a true measure of
Umbridge, and it is that lack of caring the puts her far far far DOWN
the moral scale from Dumbledore.

By no means was she acting out her own version of what she thought was
good and right, she was doing what she knew was wrong and illegal
because it server her, and because she thought she had the power and
position to get away with it.

Just a thought.

Steve/bboyminn (was bboy_mn)