All about Lupin (and a little about Tolkien)

[Renee]

No: HPFGUIDX 122035


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
wrote:

> Pippin:
> True, Tolkien's not as ruthless with his good guys as Rowling. 
> Only Faramir is allowed to imagine the agony of knowing that  a 
> kindly and beloved protector fell into evil -- "Boromir, O 
Boromir!  
> what did she say to  you, the Lady that dies not?  What did she 
> see? What woke in your heart then?" And he's partly consoled by 
> the thought that whether he erred or not, Boromir died well. But 
in 
> Rowling, people have to live with their mistakes.

Renee:
You mean there's no redemption for Rowling's characters once they've 
erred? That doesn't bode well for Snape, then. What if Dumbledore 
trusts him - to commit the ultimate betrayal at exactly the right 
moment? The agent of Evil who has "to accomplish something before 
the end", like Gollum did when he destroyed the Ring against his own 
intentions by falling into Mount Doom with it? That could explain 
why JKR was so stunned when the interviewer remarked there was a 
redemptive pattern to Snape... 

I agree with you: Tolkien/Rowling comparisons are fascinating.

<snip>
> Renee, previously:
> > Lupin must have done so, or DD wouldn't accept him in the 
> renewed  Order of the Phoenix. 

> Pippin:
> *Does* Dumbledore trust everyone in the Order? Lupin is never 
> allowed to be alone in Harry's presence after PoA. And what is 
> Dumbledore checking for, when he sends Phineas to Grimmauld Place 
to see if "the coast is clear"? 

Renee:
It's quite likely Dumbledore doesn't trust everyone, after VWI. But 
we don't know any particulars, and we don't know anything 
about 'allowed'; that's an interpretation, not a fact. And Lupin 
isn't the only character who's never seen alone with Harry in OotP. 
But I won't say "so that's a lot of suspects', because then we're 
back to the whodunit level again. It's not a matter of "who is so 
untrustworthy that he committed all the major atrocities in the 
series that weren't committed by Voldemort?" and then pulling a big 
bad wolf out of the black hat. IMO the important question when it 
comes to trust is: who can be trusted to do (or not to do) what? See 
also above, under Snape. 

Knowing that one of Lupin's big flaws is lack of responsibility, 
what would DD trust him to do? Don't shoot me if this sounds weird, 
but if the alchemy hypothesis is true and the HP series does indeed 
follow the stages of the Great Work, Lupin could be the "grey wolf", 
also called the "lupus metallorum" - think of the moment when 
Lupin's voice sounds metallic in PoA! - who must *devour* the lion 
in order to redeem it. This is a symbolical rendering of the 
alchemical purification process for contaminated gold (symbolised by 
the lion - Harry) with the use of antimony (symbolised by the grey 
wolf - Lupin). It could mean that Lupin, being irresponsible again, 
will do something to Harry which is necessary for Harry to attain 
the perfect purity he'll need to vanquish Voldemort. One important 
alchemict text says the lion has to cleanse his eyes with the wolf's 
blood and also refers to the curative properties of the antimony of 
which it is a symbol. We already know that Harry has weak eyesight 
and that this is somehow important to the plot. So, while still not 
buying into the ESE!Lupin theory, I wouldn't be too shocked if Lupin 
would screw up badly yet and harm Harry, thought with a beneficial 
effect.  

As for the Phineas Nigellus question, DD *doesn't* send him to 12GP 
to see if the coast is clear. Phineas is sent to tell Sirius that 
the Weasleys and Harry will arrive shortly. The sentence about the 
coast being clear is ambiguous, because it's followed directly by 
the arrival of Fawkes's warning feather which indicates that 
Umbridge knows the children are out of their bed. But even if it 
refers to Phineas, what danger would Lupin's presence mean when 
Sirius is present, too and Molly is coming with Harry?

>  Lupin's always a part of Harry's escort in OOP, *except* when 
> he's most vulnerable, visiting Mr. Weasley right after the snake 
> vision. And we're specifically told it's not the full moon. 

Renee:
The first visit to St. Mungo's takes place by day. They leave after 
lunch and are back hours before dinner. So Lupin's absence is not 
related to the question whether the moon is full or not. 

We're also told he is frequently away running errands for DD, so I'd 
find it a little peculiar if he would always be at 12GP when Harry's 
there. And as he isn't there when Harry and the Weasley's arrive 
after the attack on Arthur, it's logical that he doesn't accompany 
them to St. Mungo's.   

Pippin: 
> Interesting that no one attacks Lupin in the MoM, isn't it? What
> if Dumbledore knows the DE's won't attack if it'd mean nailing 
> their own spy? 

Renee:
In the first place, we don't know that no one attacked Lupin in the 
MoM; that we don't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen; Harry can't 
see everything simultaneously. If soldiers emerge unscathed from a 
battle, does that mean nobody attacked them? Or could it mean they 
fought too well to be harmed/were just lucky? Bellatrix wasn't 
harmed either, but not because no one attacked her. 
By the way, I don't understand your question. Wouldn't the DE's nail 
a spy by *not* attacking him?
 
> While Hermione trusts Lupin, something seems to hold Harry 
> back. When his scar hurts in GoF, he writes to Sirius, and never 
> thinks of Lupin, and when he needs to talk about his father's 
> past, it's Sirius he particularly wants, though Lupin could have 
> answered the questions just as well.

Renee:
Sirius is his godfather, with the emphasis on *father*. He latches 
on to the idea he has a parent in Sirius, something he's never had 
before. Lupin never become parental; in fact, he's the first adult 
in the series who treats Harry as an equal. And Harry likes him a 
lot; there are several instances in OotP that show he does (Lupin's 
arrival at No.4 Privet Drive, Harry's "pleasant squirm" when he 
first spots Lupin in the Pensieve Scene). I don't see him holding 
back.  
 
Pippin:
> You did notice, perhaps, that Lupin didn't actually teach Harry to 
> produce a corporeal patronus? He stopped the lessons while 
> Harry was still only able to produce a silver vapor -- not enough 
> to drive a dementor away.

Renee:
Oh, I think Harry did produce a corporeal Patronus before he did so 
in the Time-turner sequence. He just didn't do it in the presence of 
real Dementors. I'm referring to the Quidditch match where Draco & 
Co. play their little joke on Harry. We read: "Something silver 
white, something enormous, erupted from the end of his wand. He knew 
it had shot directly at the Dementors but *didn't pause to watch*" 
(emphasis mine).

This is not what happened the previous time he tried to cast a 
Patronus: "... he was able to produce an indistinct, silvery shadow 
every time the Boggart-Dementor approached him, but his Patronus was 
too feeble to drive the Dementor away. All it did was hover, like a 
semi-transparent cloud, draining Harry of energy as he fought to 
keep it there." A semi-transparent cloud verus something silver 
white and enormous indicates a change for the better. But then 
there's Lupin's reaction after the match. His words don't count, 
because he's under suspicion. But his reaction, registered by Harry, 
speaks loudly enough: he looks both shaken and pleased. Pleased, 
because Harry has finally produced a true Patronus. And shaken? 
Well, what about: because he recognised the stag and was reminded of 
his dead friend James? 

If Lupin stopped the lessons (and do we know for certain that he 
did?), it was because he had nothing more to teach Harry. Are we 
even sure Lupin himself can cast a corporeal Patronus? Also, 
teaching a charm is not like teaching history. The latter is 
knowledge, the former is mostly a skill. It involves basic knowledge 
like what incantation to use and what to focus on, but the student 
has to do it. If somebody can't learn to play a musical instrument, 
it could be the teacher's fault, but mostly it's lack of talent 
and/or dedication in the student. When it comes to acquiring a 
skill, there's only so much a teacher can do. The fact that few 
adult wizards can cast a proper Patronus suggests this is the case 
here as well.          

Pippin: 
> As for Lupin and the veil, Dumbledore had turned and was 
> watching and everyone still thought Harry had the prophecy. 
> Voldemort would not be best pleased if Harry went through the 
> veil, bearing the prophecy with him, while, as far as he knows, 
> there is another child who could yet fulfill it. 

Renee:
If this is an argument for ESE!Lupin, then the fact that Lupin is 
never seen alone with Harry after PoA is not an argument, and the 
same goes for the episode with 'the coast being clear'. 

> Pippin
> never bored with Tolkien/Rowling comparisons

Actually, this whole thing reminds me of another book, a whodunit (!)
this time: Eco's The Name of the Rose. In it, the sleuth William of 
Baskerville builds an elaborate theory to explain a series of 
murders, and everything fits his theory. Yet in the end, it turns 
out there was no plan; the theory was a construction, instead of a 
reconstruction. 

Renee