In Defense of Snape (long)

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 122326


Betsy said earlier:
>>>Oh, I agree that Snape was setting Harry up for failure.  I just 
>>> think there was a reason for the behavior as I state above ["to 
>>> make the correct impression on Draco Malfoy. Snape is a spy"].
 
SSSusan responded:
> > Seems kind of a dumb thing to do, though, doesn't it?  Set Harry 
> > up for failure from the beginning?  I mean, you're arguing that 
> > Snape is one of the Good Guys, one who never wants to see Voldy 
> > return, one who wants him eliminated if he does return?  Then 
> > wouldn't he WANT Harry Potter -- the kid who vanquished Voldy 
> > the first time, the only one who apparently has a chance to beat 
> > him for good -- to learn? Or are you thinking that at this point 
> > Snape knows nothing about Harry's likely role in any future 
> > Voldycide?  Or that he doesn't believe Voldy will return?  It 
> > seems to me that that *can't* be your point; otherwise, why 
> > would Snape have to maintain a cover w/ the DE kids?  If he 
> > isn't in on the possibility that Voldy's still hanging round out 
> > there, trying to make a comeback, then Snape wouldn't have 
> > to maintain any cover or worry about what the DE kids thought of 
> > him, would he?
> <snip>
 
Betsy:
> I was using a bit of slang up there -- sorry!  To "set someone up 
> for failure," means to arrange things so they'll make a fool out 
> of themselves.  

SSSusan:
Hmmmm.  Okay.  In my book setting someone up for failure doesn't 
necessarily have the objective of making a fool of the person but 
just, well, doing somethig to ensure his failure.  


Betsy:
> So in that first class Snape set Harry up for failure by 
> asking him potion questions he probably didn't know the answer for 
> and blaming Harry and Ron for Neville's potion accident (as Geoff 
> pointed out - Snape probably would've yelled at them if they *had* 
> helped Neville).  I don't think he's not trying to teach Harry (or 
> Neville for that matter), but I do think part of Snape's method is 
> to choose a scapegoat in order to scare the crap out of the class 
> and motivate them to never, ever be in the scapegoat's position 
> (i.e. do the reading, learn the potions, etc.).  For various 
> reasons (including the Spy!Snape one) Harry was chosen for that 
> illustrious position.

SSSusan:
Snape's rationale for his actions in this scene is one of the more 
oft-debated and non-agreed-upon Snape issues.  Was it to humiliate 
Harry?  To bring him down a notch?  To establish that Snape's in 
control?  Because he sees James when he looks at Harry?  To bring 
attention to *those* particular potions ingredients ["hint, hint, 
Harry -- they're important!"]?  To set the scene so that the wee 
wittle DE kids will believe he's after Harry?  We really don't know, 
do we?


Betsy: 
> So yes, I think Snape is aware of Harry's importance in the fight 
> against Voldemort.  And I have strong suspisions that he's aware 
> of Neville's position too.

SSSusan:
But, see, that's my main point, Betsy.  If Snape is aware of their 
importance, then why does he not ask himself whether these two are 
learning?  

With *these two* he goes beyond being a tough, hard-nosed, extremely-
non-warm-fuzzy, high-standards teacher.  I have NO qualms with a 
teacher of that description.  I have problems with a teacher who 
singles out students to repeatedly humiliate and beat down and 
insult and intimidate, **especially** if they are THE two students 
in whose hands the future of the WW may well rest.  


Betsy:
> I think, based on Neville's smile and Harry's confidence, that 
> both boys ended up doing well on their Potion's exam in OotP.  In 
> which case, Snape is a good teacher.

SSSusan:
Maybe.  For me it's not just about whether they managed to pass a 
big Potions test in the end, in Snape's absence, though that WILL be 
good news if they did.  For me it's also not just about whether 
they've learned to "handle" a smart ass teacher because Voldy will 
be much worse than that.  For me it's about whether they've learned 
*everything* they could possibly learn from this man (who I suspect 
knows a LOT), and whether they're the best prepared they can be.

Snape's humiliation, sarcasm, snideness, and etc. appear to show a 
man who either can't control himself very well for the sake of the 
greater good or who just doesn't get it that he's not helping these 
two, one of whom, if the prophecy is right, is The One to Watch.

Siriusly Snapey Susan