Pensieve memories again. Was: Harry's anger

[Renee]

No: HPFGUIDX 122471


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214" 
<dumbledore11214 at y...> wrote:
> 
> Renee:
> I can think of a reason why DD didn't offer Harry the choice: if 
> Harry could remove the memories he doesn't want Snape to see, his 
> motivation to learn Occlumency would be even less than it is. 
>  
> That's also the reason IMO, why complaints that the situation 
isn't 
> fair (Snape can remove his memories but Harry can't) are beside 
the 
> point. Wanting to throw Snape out of his memories ought to be an 
> incentive to Harry to take learning Occlumency serious. 
> Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.
> 
> 
> Alla:
> 
> I am not sure I agree. Shouldn't Harry's motivation to learn 
> Occlumency be to throw Voldemort out? ( But of course it was hard 
for 
> him to actually GET this information out of Snape)
> 
> Are you saying that Dumbledore's motivation was to INCREASE 
hostility 
> between Snape and Harry, not to decrease it?

Renee:
Yes, the reason why Harry needs to learn Occlumency, or so we're 
told, is that he has to throw Voldemort out. But he's practising on 
Snape, or supposed to. The first thing he has to learn is to feel 
how it is when someone's intruding into his memories, and learning 
to throw them out. During the lessons, that someone is Snape (who 
else could it be?). If Harry has the opportunity to extricate the 
memories he doesn't want Snape to see and put them into a pensieve, 
his motivation to throw Snape out of his head will diminish. Harry's 
reaction to Snape accessing the memory of him and Cho, and that of 
Cedric Diggory lying dead on the ground, shows that it works like 
that. Those are the moments when he puts an effort into it. If those 
memories had been in a pensieve, Harry probably wouldn't have 
bothered. He must learn to see his own vulnerability to intrusion. 
Unfortunately he fails to acknowledge this and focuses on the person 
of the teacher - not very surprisingly, as Snape obviously isn't the 
right person to teach him. 

Alla: 
> I am arguing that much more should have been done to help Harry 
and 
> Snape to cross the bridge towards each other, to make them see 
that 
> they are on the same side, IF Snape is of course.
> 
> Instead, IMO, Snape treated Harry NOT just like tough instructor 
of 
> martial arts, but more like an enemy and of course he got the same 
> attitude from Harry.

Renee:
I agree. The enmity between Harry and Snape ought not to have been 
ignored. But I've ceased to expect much psychological finesse from 
most of the people in the Wizarding World.     

Alla:
> By the way, now I am  not even sure that Pensieve was 
Dumbledore's. I 
> think Vmonte made VERY good point.
> 
> Dumbledore WOULD have tell Snape that Harry may want to take a 
look 
> in it.
> 
> If Dumbledore indeed did so, it makes me wonder of Snape 
intentions 
> again.
> 

Renee:
Somehow, I don't think Dumbledore did. It doesn't sound like DD to 
confirm Snape's bad opinion about Harry by pointing out that Harry 
might decide to snoop into the Pensieve. Talking negatively about 
students to (other) teachers sounds more like Snape ("This class 
contains Neville Longbottom...").