The method of communication (Harry's patronus)

[jlv230]

No: HPFGUIDX 122618


As this has sparked a number of responses I thought I'd bring this 
together. Just so's you've got the evidence, I am basing my 
conclusions on the following bits of canon: 

"Rumour: The Order of the Phoenix communicates using chocolate frog 
cards.
JKR: This is such a great idea that I was in two minds whether to 
shoot it down; however, a chocolate frog card, or any object that 
would have to be remembered and carried on the person, would always 
be vulnerable to loss, destruction or trickery. The Order 
communicates in a way that requires nothing but a wand. You saw the 
Order's method of communication in use even before you knew about 
the existence of the Order; it was employed by an Order member." 
(Website Rumours section)

Reading the books thoroughly has led me to the belief that this 
method is the silvery bird Dumbledore shoots out in GoF (ch. 28, p. 
486, UK ed.):
"`Should I go and get someone?' said Harry. `Madam Pomfrey?'
`No,' said Dumbledore swiftly. `Stay here.'
He raised his wand into the air and pointed it in the direction of 
Hagrid's cabin. Harry saw something silvery dart out of it and 
streak away through the trees like a ghostly bird."

I believe this is the method because:
1) Dumbledore seems to be sending a message to Hagrid
2) It only required a wand
3) We saw it before we knew about the Order
I find that quite a lot of people (but certainly not all) agree with 
me on this one.

The 'wild leap' I have made is to connect this with the Edinburgh 
Book Day quote: 
"What form does Dumbledore's Patronus take? 
Good question. Can anyone guess? You have had a clue. There was a 
little whisper there. It is a phoenix, which is very representative 
of Dumbledore for reasons that I am sure you can guess."
Now, I took this clue to which JKR refers to be *exactly the same 
scene* in GoF where Dumbledore sends out the silvery thing. It is 
only a clue because we don't get to see the form of the bird because 
it is moving so fast.

What other clue may JKR be referring to? I assume it will be 
something from the books, and moreover it would be a specific 
incidental clue (not a general 'well, Dumbledore has a Phoenix' sort 
of thing). These are my own assumptions and I see that they are not 
universal in any way, but I note that many objections to the idea 
don't attack my assumptions but point out that it simply `wouldn't 
work' – like this one from Neri:

Neri said:
1. Some wizards have birds as patroni (DD has a phoenix and Cho has 
a swan) but other wizards have non-bird patroni (Harry has a hart, 
Hermione an otter and Seamus "something furry"). These seem ill-
suited for delivering messages. Would you want to wait until the 
otter arrived from Hogwarts to London with your message? I wouldn't.
JLV:
Remember they are not animals, they just look like them. I'm sure an 
actual hart couldn't chase down 100(?) dementors any more than Harry 
alone could. There is nothing to say that Patroni (still no idea 
what the plural should be) *can't* do more than we first thought.

Or indeed this one from Chancie:
Chancie:
2. I don't remember that they make sound, so how can they deliver a
message?
JLV:
Messages can be delivered without the Patronus having to make a 
sound (especially as sounds could be overheard), and we do know that 
Patroni can move. JKR could devise many wonderful ways for a 
Patronus to pass on information if she wanted to. In addition, my 
Physics degree tells me that anything that is corporeal (=of a 
material nature i.e. tangible) which may move is perfectly capable 
of producing a sound in air. Whether or not it could talk is, of 
course, another matter entirely!
Chancie:
Are you suggesting Patronus use sign/body language?? I suppose it is 
possible, (we are talking about magic after all) but sorry, I just 
can't see this one. I never disputed the fact that Patronus's can 
move, or that they can take orders. Harry shows that when he order's 
the Patronus to charge at the Dementor trying to "kiss" Duddley. But 
I'm just picturing Harry's stag, trying to deliver a message in a 
way that greatly resembles' charades. And I don't know about you, 
but I think I would too distracted by the pure fact that this animal 
(I say that because all the Patronesses that we have seen are 
animal's) trying to "act out" a message. I don't think I could 
concentrate on the message, because I'd be too busy laughing.
But maybe that's just me.
JLV:
I think, my friend, you are taking the Michael out of me. I didn't 
suggest that Charades was the answer, just that (1) only JKR can 
decide what Patroni may do and they may have all sorts of uses we 
don't know about and (2) real things that move could make noises in 
theory so there is no canon contradiction. And Ginxy... it's a book –
 seven words – sixth word – blood – ooh not bad!

And some words from Chancie and TrekkieGrrrl:
Chancie:
3. How could a witch or wizard send a Patronus, without it being 
seen by a muggle or possibly even a DE?
JLV:
Good question - I'm not sure. The gang sure could see the bird 
Dumbledore sent off - perhaps they just move so fast that they don't 
get seen - once they have time to accelerate out of the wand. 
However, if we do believe that Dumbledore's bird is the method of 
communication, then we can't deny that it would indeed be visible at 
least at some part of its journey, even if it isn't a Patronus.
TrekkieGrrrl:
Perhaps Muggles can't see a patronus? like they can't se dementors, 
or the Knight Bus. But Death Eaters sure can, which again makes a 
patronus a bad candidate IMO. I do think, however, that when we saw 
DD send the silvery birdlike thing to get Hagrid, we did see the 
thing JKR is referring to. I just don't think it's a patronus.
JLV:
I'm sure you've contradicted yourself  here – `a thing which can be 
seen is a bad candidate for the communication method' plus `the 
thing the gang saw is the communication thing' equals `tell JKR 
she's chosen the wrong method' not `The patronus can't be' IMHO.

And finally there's a thought from Ms Luna:
I also believe the patronus is not the way the Order communicates, 
it's too visible! If a DE were to see a phoenix patronus flying 
through the air in London, they would KNOW Dumbledore was sending a 
message. I believe it to be much more stealthier (is that a word?
[JLV: yes but no – it's `much more stealthy' OR `more stealthy' 
OR `much stealthier' FYI and as a response I ditto mine to 
TrekkieGrrrl immediately above]) MsLuna:Although my theory of the 
order communicating using the *two-way* mirrors has been dismissed, 
I still stand by that. Maybe the mirrors with a *nifty new spell* 
attached! 
JLV:
In JKR's quote, "nothing but a wand" means "*nothing* but a wand"
 
surely? Am I being thick? I apologise.

When we're past these we have more interesting objections:
Neri:
2. When DD sends his silver bird in GoF, Harry had already seen 
Fawkes, who is a large and quite a distinct bird. If DD were using 
his patronus, Harry would have identified it as a phoenix, not merely
as a bird. 
JLV: 
Now this is more like it. I have already admitted that connecting 
the bird to the Patronus is really where the shaky ground lies. I 
can but point out that Harry hasn't always recognised things for 
what they really are first time before. The description said, 
however, that the thing darted out of the wand and streaked away. 
This sounds like it was moving fast to me so Harry may have missed 
getting a good look. It is also possible that JKR chose to withhold 
this information - perhaps to keep the identity of the Order of the 
Phoenix under wraps or for another wicked reason of her own.

Neri:
3. Just think about JKR saying to herself: "Oops, I need some way 
for the Order members to communicate. Why won't they use the 
patronus for that?" Naah, this doesn't sound like our Jo at all. 
She'd go: "hey, the Order members need a secure way to communicate. 
Oh good! A reason
to invent a nifty new spell!"
JLV: 
I don't think she ever thought 'Oops' on this one either - remember 
she said "You saw the Order's method of communication in use even 
before you knew about the existence of the Order; it was employed by 
an Order member." This suggests to me that the method of 
communication was planned a long way in advance. As for inventing a 
new spell, she may do, but in GoF Polyjuice Potion reappeared after 
being used in CoS. Why are you so convinced that Jo would choose to 
use a new spell here rather than expand on an old one?

Lady McBeth now:
I don't think the Patronus charm is the answer either. What did come 
to mind, however, was that the wispy thing appearing from DD's wand 
was gray or silvery, right? This sounds very similar to removing a 
thought to put it in a Pensive.
JLV:
I like this idea, but does a thought from the Pensieve (a silvery-
white liquid) fit the description of the darting silver thing any 
more than Dumbledore's Patronus. I think the Patronus is a better 
fit. But that is only my opinion.

Chancie:
1. Harry is told that the Patronus charm is VERY difficult.
JLV replied:
Aha, but the Order members are not just any old wizards, are they? 
Also many DA members managed to produce one after much practice. And 
most messages won't be sent in front of Dementors which may make 
thing a lot easier.
TrekkieGrrrl:
At the OWL exam, the examinators were impressed that Harry could 
conjure up a *corporeal* patronus. Seems to me that there are two 
types, and that the corporeal ones are *RARE* - so rare that not 
even all older wizards can make them. And then again, you're 
apparently supposed to concentrate all the time while making the 
patronus, which makes it a bad messenger.
JLV:
I believe you only need to concentrate hard while conjuring the 
Patronus, not once it is already made. Also, I believe that the 
examiners were just impressed that someone so young could produce a 
corporeal Patronus, not that he could do it at all. And, I reiterate 
that the Order is built up of a number of very powerful wizards. 
After all, Mrs Figg can't use a wand so there may be other ways to 
send messages for the more magically challenged. I don't know what 
would happen to Hagrid if he was caught using that brolly by the MoM


All in all an excellent debate - I'm having fun!
JLV xx