The method of communication (Harry's patronus)

[jlv230]

No: HPFGUIDX 122697


JLV:
Let's make this clear. You agree that even if it was a Phoenix- 
shaped thing, Harry may not have recognised it. Excellent. But you 
think that it needn't be a Patronus even if it was Phoenix-like. If 
that is the case, then I can't argue, Becky. As I said before, the 
*only* reason I have to think it is a Patronus is the Edinburgh Book 
Day quote:

"What form does Dumbledore's Patronus take? Good question. Can 
anyone guess? You have had a clue. There was a little whisper there. 
It is a phoenix, which is very representative of Dumbledore for 
reasons that I am sure you can guess."

 It is the "You have had a clue." bit that I picked up on and 
believed to mean that there was a specific clue in the books which 
we may have overlooked. It is indeed a very tenuous connection, but 
this is the only time I can find where Dumbledore ever shoots 
anything which could possibly be his Phoenix Patronus out of his 
wand. Hence I came to this conclusion.

<snip>

Becky:
Ok. Here goes! I do agree that Harry may not have noticed exactly 
what he saw. I've walked past friends in the street and looked right 
at them and not noticed who they were until they've said hello! 
[JLV:Me too!] (I feel the situation is different to that in the MoM 
when Harry *actively* looked for the DEs) Just to clear that up 
first.

Then my reasons as to why I think that it's not a patronus. My 
reason comes from the same place you read to mean it *is* a 
patronus, JKR's Edinburgh interview. She said we'd been given a 
clue, rather than we had actually *seen* his patronus. It does 
depend on interpretation of course.

JLV: But we didn't actually see it, Harry "may not have noticed 
exactly what he saw" so we only got a hint of it. It is never 
described as a Patronus, we can't even detect its form. We see but 
don't see. That is what I would call a clue, but I respect your 
point. There is nothing conclusive here (either way
 I think).

Becky:
My other reasons are that, as has been discussed, the patronus 
charm / spell / whatever is difficult. 

JLV
I am of the opinion that there is no such thing as can't and try try 
try again so I can't accept that something is `too hard' as a reason 
for it not to be done. But that is just my opinion, and may not be 
JKR's (although I hope it is!).

Becky:
Also, it is described as 'a positive force, a projection of... hope, 
happiness, the desire to survive' (pg.176 in bloomsbury copy of PoA).

JLV:
That it is a positive force shouldn't prevent something doing 
something, should it? I can't follow this at all I'm afraid.

Becky:
It disappears too fast. That doesn't sound to me like something 
capable of giving a message, no matter how short.

JLV:
Does it? Really? Harry's Patronus in the alley in OotP lasts long 
enough for Harry to turn it round. Nothing in the books says they 
couldn't last longer than that. Perhaps they only last as long as 
they are needed.

Becky:
Therefore, I come to the conclusion that that is *not* what the OOTP 
use to communicate.

I think that JKR's comments that we have seen their means of 
communication used allows for something that we don't understand as 
yet. Just because we've seen something doesn't mean that we *do* 
understand it, so that's my reason for thinking it could well be 
something other than a patronus.

Also, as I have already pointed out (thank you for thinking my whole 
same but different thing made sense!!!), my main point of thinking 
was a sort of positive interpretation of the dark mark. Something 
*unique* (in the true sense of the word. I have a pet loathing of 
the misuse of that particular word!!) to OOTP members. As a result, 
the chances of it being sent by someone untrustworthy are very slim. 
I take on board the point about a fingerprint being useful, but I 
think a fingerprint of OOTP is possible enough...

JLV:
And I come to the conclusion that the Patronus as a means of 
communication shouldn't be ruled out
 yet. I wouldn't be surprised 
(or upset) if it wasn't true, but I don't think anything cited so 
far is any more probable. Plenty of ideas that are as probable (like 
the unique-to-OotP-Phoenix-ghost-type-messengers), but none more so, 
IMHO.

Take care,
JLV xx