[HPforGrownups] Re: More Snape Defense, regarding Snape's childhood. (Long)

[TrekkieGrrrl]

No: HPFGUIDX 122879

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "TrekkieGrrrl" <trekkie at s...>
wrote:
> Some of the discussions here has made me wonder if Snape is
capable of making a patronus at all.
>

Valky:
Like Alla said, there is a JKR interveiw that gives confirmation of
this for you. Snape makes a patronus, but we aren't allowed to know
what it is.... yet..

http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/2004/0304-wbd.htm

'Ernie: I wonder if you can let us know what form will Professor
Snape's Boggart and Patronus take? I am very curious.
JK Rowling replies -> Well, I'm not going to tell you Ernie, but
that's because it would give so much away. I wonder whether Ernie is
your real name? (It was my grandfather's).'

World Book Day Chat 2004

TrekkieGrrrl again: OK. I've read the books. Not all the interviews. Yet.

Trekkiegrrl:
> Now, I haven't been am member of this group for long, but it
amazes me that noone has mentioned more about Snape's childhood.

Valky:
ROFL! That because you haven't been a member long! , not because
noone has mentioned it before. Look back through the archives, if
you don't find a *very* large proportion of messages to be Snape
defense, then I will eat my keyboard! ;D

Now on to your issue... LOL

TrekkieGrrrl again:
OK so some things have been answered before. Sorry. Also sorry that I find 
Yahoo groups a pest to search in. I wasn't aware that it was a laughing 
matter to ask for something just because it has been discussed before.

Just in that time I HAVE been following this group - in silence - I have 
seen the same issues brought up multiple times. Still with a new or 
different angle.

Trekkiegrrl:
> I find it rather obvious that his own childhood has been the one
of an abused child. And his behavioral pattern fits this very well.
> No wonder Snape hides behind his sarcastic mask. Better not let
anyone get close to you - that way they can't hurt you!
>

Valky:
In spite of that we can logically argue that we *don't* really know
that, I believe you're right. I'm fairly sure that the hints can be
taken quite for granted, Snapes childhood was very unpleasant... as
were Lupin's and Sirius' in their own way. To some extent I will go
down the path you suggest and imagine Snape's behaviour to be a
psychological mask, but certainly not so far as you might. He's no
angel underneath. And OcarWinner!Snape, IMO is about as wholly
contrived and ridiculous as you can get. There is no calm spring of
detachment guiding him in his inner being.
OTOh there is a good point to what you're saying and Sevvie does
keep the distance between him and others to prevent himself being
vulnerable to them. But he does it to his detriment, really, because
he is all too nice to some very unpleasant people and vice versa to
the ones who *would* respect him.


Trekkiegrrl:
> I don't think he's sadistic in the usual sense of that word
either. But again it's the typical pattern: People who are beaten as
kids are far more inclined to slap their own children, and though
Im not saying Snape was physically abused (though I would very much
think so,


Valky:
And I would agree with all you have said except one thing, but how
can that defend Snape. In the end he chooses his own consequences.
It is right be considerate of the typical pattern of abuse, but to
accept it as an end of a persons existence is a gross
underestimation of human potential. Snape has the power to change,
he has a right to be loved and respected, the thing is he chooses to
waive those things for whatever reasons, they are his own.

And he does have a sadistic streak, actually IMHO that is the very
thing that is the problem here. In the shrieking shack for example,
the temptation is too strong for him, he could take the whole party
up to the castle and have the whole ting promptly sorted, the
children safe, justice served... but he craves his bitter revenge on
Sirius and it comes first.

Just put Dumbledore in Snape's place in that Chapter and you will
see how someone *without* a sadistic streak would handle the
situation. See how Snape pales in the light of logical Dumbledore
steps...?

TrekkieGrrrl again:
I do not agree fully that Snape has the power to change. I agree - of 
course - that he has a right to be loved and respected, but I don't think 
he's AWARE of why people doesn't like him.

And sorry but I just don't LIKE Dumbledore all that much. I'm not sure he 
hasn't got a sadistic streak too, depending of course of how you define 
that.

> Trekkiegrrl:
> Abused children show many "abnormal" patterns in their behaviour.
and though some may grow up and act as "normal" responsible adults
later on, some just can't. They do not have the basis for that. And
Snape was one of the latter.
>

Valky:
That, I am afraid, is just your basic narrow minded cop out. Nothing
personal Trekkiegrrl.

TrekkieGrrrl again:
Personal or not I find that a strange accusation. I DO know about abused 
children FYI.

> Trekkiegrrl:
> I doubt Snape had many friends in Slytherin too. Noone
> seems to have in any way come to his defenses when the Marauders
were picking on him at the "upside-down" episode. And int IS canon
that it wasn't the first time they'd chosen Snape as their favourite
victim. Some kids are natural victims, often kids from abusive
households. I guess wizards can be alcoholics too, or be addicted to
illegal potions and whatnot. And Snape's home might very well have
been like that. it DOES fit his behavioral pattern  as the "victim"
>

Valky:
Children are afraid of Adult!Snape, Child!Snape knew more "scary"
curses than even most of the oldest children in the school. I think
its safe to presume that at least some of these children were afraid
of Snape and James. Snape because he was a "scary dangerous weird
boy" and James because he was dangerous to the dangerous.
You must remember when reading the scene that Lily Evans was an
exceptionally brave girl and bravery is not a key Slytherin trait
while self-preservation IS.

TrekkieGrrrl again:
I'm sure there were many who were afraid of Child!Snape - and many of 
Child!James. But likely not the same children.


 Trekkiegrrl:
> And then comes this "Fhrer" in the shape of Voldemort and all of
a sudden the underdog gets a chance to get POWER!
>
> WHO can't REALLY blame Snape for grasping that?
>

Valky:
I agree, but Snapes past does not colour my veiw of his present. All
in all he *is* still what he is now, and for as much as any reason
it is by choice.

TrekkieGrrrl again:
And this is where we differ. I don't think he HAS this choice. He has never 
HAD much of a choice as I see it.

 Trekkiegrrl:
> No, he's not an ideal teacher after our standards. But again,
remember how old fashoined the Wizarding World is. Go back 75 years
and he would have been a MILD teacher.

Valky:
A fair enough statement, and I am not so passionate, really, about
it all. I prefer Harry to Snape and thats that.

TrekkieGrrrl again:
Oh I like Harry too, though I think he did an unforgivable thing by putting 
his nose into Snape's Pensieve. It is Harry's everpresent curiosity that 
makes him disregard the necessety of the Occlumency lessons and it's the 
same curiosity that makes him peep in the Pensieve. It just doesn't make it 
right.

I won't say I prefer Snape to Harry. I like both of them for very different 
reasons. But if I have to choose, I would save Snape ;o)

~TrekkieGrrrl