Zen and the Art of Vanquishing Voldemort (was: Why should Harry be expected.

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 122934


Neri:
> > Trying desperately to yank this sub-thread back on topic, did 
you ever consider looking at DD as a Zen master? It might be the key 
to the mystery of his character. True, he doesn't use a stick 
(pretty redundant when he has Snape in his toolbox) but he seems to 
share the extremely annoying philosophy that Zen (erm... I mean 
vanquishing Voldy) cannot be taught. Harry must make the voyage 
himself. 
> > 

Valky:
As a matter of fact, just diving right in to this thread, I do agree 
with you Neri. Before all the debate of spiritual, moral, 
phisophical and what have you allegory in the books, I had already 
come to a fair conclusion that DD's way was modelled on some Zen 
existentialist, "to learn to fight one must first learn *not* to 
fight grasshopper-DanielSon-Young Skywalker".... Holy man.
I have always liked these characters, and I equally like Dumbledore.


> Lupinlore:
> Hmmm.  This is interesting, but it slides to close to all the
> "alchemical" posts for me.  And I freely admit we are dealing with
> matters of taste here.  My gut instinct, however, is that whereas 
JKR does have pretty strong moral, philosophical, and even 
theological ideas, she is not setting about to write an allegory or 
to specifically exemplify a set of theories or approach to the 
world.  
>

Valky:
I agree with you too Lupinlore. I think JKR chooses these characters 
not with an especially deliberate allegorical purpose, but because 
they are fantastical characters, in the realm of our imagination and 
fantasies. 
Characters like Dumbledore, always manage to speak to us on some 
deeper level anyway. That's part of the enjoyment of the story.

Lupinlore: 
> On somewhat firmer ground, I think this way of seeing Dumbledore is
> slightly undercut by DD's admissions at the end of OOTP.  There he
> doesn't talk about letting Harry develop for himself (although he 
has almost certainly been doing some of that), but rather that he 
just couldn't give Harry needed information because he couldn't bring
> himself to hurt Harry in that way (and I personally suspect that
> finding Harry with the Mirror of Erised way back in '91 was a key
> turning point in the way DD reacts emotionally to Harry).  At this
> point DD doesn't appear so much a Zen Master as a deeply conflicted
> man who just honestly doesn't know what to do.
> 


Valky:
You are right about that, too. And it's a great twist on the 
ZenMaster character which goes to prove JKR's originality. 

I don't think it completely undermines DD's wisdom though. It 
reveals his humanity, and his willingness to face it, but I think we 
just might discover that Dumbledore's admission of failing more a 
right than a wrong.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I think even Dumbledore will 
be surprised to find in the end that all was right with his plan.