Fairy tale v real life Was: Re: Innocent Alby?

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 123016


Renee:
JKR has said DD is the epitome of goodness, but that still doesn't 
make him God - unless she's trying to suggest DD is God's second 
incarnation on Earth after Jesus Christ, but somehow I don't think 
her own beliefs would allow her to do this. And if he's not God, 
criticism of his actions, whether on a textual level (seeing them 
as based on DD's own choices) or on a meta-textual level (seeing 
them as based on the author's choices) can't be countered with a 
reference to the way God works.  
 
In other words, to me the rift between stated authorial intentions 
and the text as we have it creates a problem here. This can be 
partially solved by seeing the series as a development from pure 
fairytale to a more "realistic" form of fantasy-cum-mystery, but as 
the Dursleys continue to play an unpleasant role in Harry's life, 
this doesn't entirely work. It works best if I can see the whole 
series as symbolical and largely non-realistic.
 
SSSusan:
A thought-provoking post, Renee.  I believe you have put your finger 
on something many do struggle with in the series.  HAVE we moved away 
from a fairytale and into the realm of more "realistic fiction" 
[yikes, is that an oxymoron? sorry, lit majors]?  It would seem so 
with the ways the Dursleys appear to have moved from caricature to 
true nasties, with Harry's raging in OotP, with the death of Sirius.  
But, you're right, Renee.  If we've made that shift, what do we do 
with characters who still seem to be sort of caricatures or symbolic, 
rather than real?  
 
I'd never thought of DD in this way, but I think you're right.  We 
saw his "breakdown" moment at the end of OotP, when we confessed to 
old man failings.  And, since JKR called him the epitome of goodness, 
we assume we're supposed to feel bad for him, forgive him, and move 
on, still trusting & believing in him.  Clearly, not all readers are 
interested in doing that and prefer to analyze him a bit more harshly 
in the light of the RW.  
 
And your bringing up Sirius' death is a good one, too.  I'm one of 
the ones who's argued that JKR should *not* bring Sirius back b/c I 
believe it would undermine the message that she seems to be trying to 
make -- that death is painful, final, and sometimes very, very 
senseless.  That's Real Life.  But is THIS?  If I'm understanding you 
correctly, you're saying that sometimes you feel like she wants to 
have it both ways.  Allow the fairytale, symbolic, don't-try-to-
analyze-this-as-real-life view of things, but then also have us see 
it all as realistic.  Have we shifted to "realistic" or is it a 
mishmash of realistic and fairytale?


Alla:

I want to thnk both Renee and Susan for their posts and make a 
confession. I think I am about to make a large shift in my assesment 
whether JKR succesfully managed to switch us from fairy tale POV to 
more or less "realistic" point of view.

I still think that shift in narration was warranted by Harry's 
growing up and darkening circumstances around him. I am starting to 
doubt very seriously whether the switch was succesful ( that is what 
spending too much time with all of you guys sometimes does to your 
views - they change :o)).

Susan made a wonderful point - in more realistic setting, what 
exactly we supposed to think  about the characters which still look 
like caricatures? As you stated - some of the readers ( I am of 
course speaking for myself) don't feel like  forgiving BECAUSE JKR 
thinks of him like " epithome of goodness", because in my mind he did 
not act like one. Is Dumbledore a "real" character" or just a 
metaphor for all - knowing mentor of the Myths? Is he both or none?

I think my head starts to hurt.

Same issue with Dursleys, whom I passionately despise, but I recently 
reread PS/SS, which I have not done for many months and I absolutely 
concede - in the first book they did look like a caricature, evil 
stepparents, whatever.

Of course, I believe that some characters  moved succesfully to be 
more "real" and Harry is the obvious one ( not because I like him, 
although I definitely do, I just think that she did the  best job 
with him), Snape, Sirius definitely became more real, IMO.

Just my opinion,

Alla