Realism or Fairytale(was: Innocent Alby?)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 123136


>>Alla:
>Again, I am not sure how well JKR managed the transition, but I 
don't see mauch of fairytale aspect on a deeper level of OOP.<
 
>>Renee:
>Oh, "fairytale" shouldn't be taken too litterally, but "fantastic 
literature laden with symbolism" (or something in that vein) is such 
a mouthful...<

Betsy:
Thank you for clearing that up a bit Renee.  I think I see what you 
and SSSusan were talking about up thread (and now I'm a bit 
embarrassed by my earlier response - because I did not quite get it 
at the time. *blushes*).  Because a reader *does* have different 
expectations for a "fairytale" story vs. a "realistic" one.  And the 
first book seems to be on a "fairytale" track.

So of *course* Harry is an orphan, and of *course* his relatives are 
mean and nasty.  It goes with the story-type, and unlike a more 
realistic story, we the readers, just sort of go with it.  We're not 
offended by the Dursleys because this isn't real.

And of course there *has* to be a "Wise-Man" type character who 
provides the hero with just enough hints for him to fulfill his task 
and reap his reward.  Dumbledore fits the bill beautifully, and of 
course we don't worry about how exactly he got to be so all-knowing 
or if he really *is* all-knowing.  That's what the character is 
supposed to be like, and so that is how he is.

But then, as the books go on, the track shifts just a bit.  Suddenly 
the hero isn't perfectly good and innocent, the good guys and bad 
guys aren't as easily discerned, and the wise-man ain't so wise.  And 
what you're asking, Renee, (I think) is if JKR is successfully 
bringing us along this sudden twist in the ride.  Or if she's even 
meaning for the story to cross completely into realism.

>>Renee:
>The characters and emotions are the elements that provide the 
recognition without which we couldn't relate to this story and its 
characters. But why introduce magic, why fill these books with 
symbols (the animal symbolism alone is overwhelming), just to provide 
a decorative and amusing backcloth? There's a lot going on underneath 
the surface that we won't pick up by merely looking at psychological, 
social and political developments.<

Betsy:
I agree with you that this is a mythical journey, so there must be 
and is a great deal of symbolism in the story.  JKR obviously put a 
lot of research into the content of the books, and I doubt she did it 
*just* for backcloth.  However, I think for most casual readers of 
these books, the symbolism *is* backcloth.  But its very richness is 
what pulls so many readers in, and provides so much fodder for the 
more involved readers to chew on.  And it is what makes the series a 
little deeper (or multi-layered) than most children's "coming of age" 
books.  So yes, *only* debating the RW issues misses some of what the 
series has to offer. 

>>Renee:
>By the way, I agree with what Pippin and Geoff say about the more 
realistic tone of OotP reflecting a development in Harry's world 
view. In fact, I claimed something similar in message #118155 
concerning Harry's changing perception of Dumbledore. Still, the 
setting as such hasn't changed, the magic works like it did before, 
the symbols are still there, and the first books are still different 
in tone. And it's when the more realistic interpretation invited by 
OotP is projected back onto the earlier, less realistic books, that 
you get this transition problem. Which is why a more symbolic 
interpretation seems so promising to me: it has a better chance to 
keep the whole series together.<

Betsy:
This is where we differ a bit.  Because I think JKR set out 
some "tells" in the first books that hinted that the story was not 
quite "fairy-tale" and setup the more "realistic" books to come. (I 
went into those "tells" in my last response, so I won't bore everyone 
by repeating myself. :))  But I think the big question is really (as 
Alla pointed out), how well is JKR handling the transition?  Did she 
drop enough hints for readers to follow along or is everything 
suddenly different?  I don't know if these questions can be fully 
debated until the end of the series, but it is interesting.

Betsy