Umbridge and Harry (was McG / DD / Re: Why should Harry be expected...)

[Geoff Bannister]

No: HPFGUIDX 123237


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "festuco" <vuurdame at x> wrote:
> 
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister"
> <gbannister10 at a...> wrote:
> 
> > All things considered, I think that you missed an important   
> > point in Alla's remarks - that using the quill was /in itself/ 
> > correct. Are you suggesting that the action, which was improper 
> > and sadistic, was correctly started by this woman to bring home 
> > to Harry the need to conform? 

Gerry:
> No, I did not. 


Geoff:
Well, you gave a good impression of doing just that....


Gerry:
> But I refuse to spell out for people what I mean for a
> third time. If they don't get it, too bad. 


Geoff:
Ah. A case of being rotten to be beneficial.
:-)


Geoff (earlier): 
> > Dolores Umbridge has the right as a teacher at Hogwarts to seek to
> > improve the educational achievement and social interaction skills 
of
> > her pupils but I think the use of water torture, meat axes and 
even
> > magic quills falls outside the parameters of what would be 
considered
> > to be good teaching techniques.


Gerry: 
> Are you actually suggesting Umbridge is there to teach a subject? 
> Please cite me some canon on which you base that. Umbridge does not
> want to teach a subject. Is not there to teach a subject. 


Geoff:
'"We have had two changes in staffing this year. We are very pleased 
to welcome back Professor Grubbly-Plank, who will be taking Care of 
Magical Creatures lessons; we are also delighted  to introduce 
Professor Umbridge, our new Defence Against the Dark Arts teacher."'

(OOTP "The Sorting Hat's New Song" p.190 UK edition)

'"It says here that she's given you detention every evening this 
week, starting tomorrow," Professor McGonagall said, looking down at 
Umbridge's note again.
"Every evening this week!" Harry repeated, horrified. "But, 
Professor, couldn't you - ?"
"No, I couldn't," said Professor McGonagall flatly.
"But -"
"She is your teacher and has every right to give you detention. You 
will go to her room at five o'clock tomorrow for the first one."'

(OOTP "Professor Umbridge" p.224 UK edition)

'"That's how Dolores Umbridge came to be appointed to the teaching 
staff at Hogwarts," said Weasley last night. "Dumbledore couldn't 
find anyone so the Minister put in Umbridge and of course, she's been 
an immediate success -"

(OOTP "The Hogwarts High Inquistor" p.275 UK edition)

In hindsight, we know that there was a hidden agenda but, 
superficially, she has been appointed to the DADA position, an 
appointment which is given lip service at least by a number of people 
and she does give freely of her time in improving the skills of her 
pupils in understanding the Course Aims.


Gerry:
> She is there to install fear and make the rules of the MoM obeyed.
> And she will use anything to make sure she gets her way. She is 
> not interested in nice little moralities. She is the strongest, so 
> she has the right. She has the full cooperation of the MoM behind
> her, and they don't really care about fair play, justice or angry 
> parents. For her good teaching technicques are those that do the 
> job: making her students do as they are told. And that is what her 
> boss wants of her. From their points of view their method works.   
> And that is all they are interested in. 
 
> Now we as readers can analyze all we want. Say how evil a person she
> is, and how immoral her behaviour. But inside the story, the Hogwart
> students had better not do the same where she or her squad members 
> can hear it, because she will make them pay for it. They had better 
> learn that in a dictatorship the rules are what the dictator says 
> they are. They can scream about morality and justice all they want, 
> but sometimes it is not available. And then people had better adapt 
> and choose their actions wisely, especially if they are going to    
> resist her. 

Geoff:
Which I think proves my point that being rotten is not being 
beneficial. I would not classify any of the outcomes in your final 
paragraph as being beneficial.