James, a paragon of virtue? Was: Why Do You Like Sirius?

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 123258



> This is, of course, round 1984765903 on this argument, but what 
the heck?
>

Valky (a 17569340th round veteran):

Can't be said much better than that, Nora, I risk well and truly 
overdoing it by responding but what the heck. Instead of letting the 
chance pass me by..... :D

 
>  Carol:
> I think that James's admirers are generally the same people who 
like (I won't say admire) Sirius. They praise James for his "values" 
or "principles" because he would never call Lily a "mudblood." 

Nora:
> It *is* a strong insight into how James has been raised that he 
> reacts so categorically to the word, just as it's an insight into 
> Draco, Young!Snape, and Voldemort--the three people (I think...) 
> we've heard use it.  It's been so reserved in actual use in the 
> series that it really hits you when you hear it--and it tells you 
> something fundamental about the user.
> 

Valky:
Ahh, yeah like Nora said.... (just kidding I do *really* have 
something to add, I think...)

Actually I never really before veiwed mudblood as so reserved a 
shorthand, but now you mention it Nora. I think yeah, it is. 
Of course the comparison most able in this scenario is Draco's use 
of it, so quietly so as not to stir a DR convention, some of the 
measure of Severus' ideology hidden by the shorthand would be 
revealed in Draco's past and future actions and attitudes towards 
non pureblood wizards etc. Not all good for dear old Severus IMO. 
(oh oh now I''ve done it!)

> Carol:
> > Neither of them has any legitimate reason for their unprovoked 
> > attack on Severus Snape, who is absorbed in studying the test 
> > questions he has just answered at great length in the DADA exam,
> > which he clearly takes more seriously than they do. (And Sirius 
> > states that he doesn't need to study for the Transfiguration 
exam, either. Thinks highly of himself, that one.)
> 

Nora:
> Remember the canon from PoA from McGonagall about Sirius and 
> James, "...very bright, of course--exceptionally bright, in 
fact..".  
> How fondly I remember all the times I didn't have to study in high 
> school...oh, those were the days.  Arrogant, yes; true, 
> (unfortunately?) also yes.



Valky:
I have definitely tried to make this point myself so often.
I believe that Sirius was *already* an accomplished animagi when he 
said this... ??? why would it be anything less than true that fifth 
year transfiguration was BORING!!!

As Nora said -- take THAT with a grain of salt, everyone!

>Carol: 
> > James bases his dislike of the studious Severus on the mere fact 
> > that he exists. 
>Nora: 
> I have to repeat the "schoolboy visceral reaction that can be 
parsed ontologically" line here, because it just says it so well.  
That is to say, ontology is frequently not a 'mere' reason, but a 
very profound one.
> 

Valky:
I know I have said this before !! not nearly as well as Nora *blush*

And for Alla's question.. the second half of the sentence was 
directed in a personal manner to Lily Evans, with some belief on 
James account that she would be impressed by it. 

".. if you know what I mean" IMHO means that James is expecting his 
humiliation of Severus to appeal to Lily on *her* level... if he 
knows Lily as well as a teenage boy with a crush might, then he is 
most likely trying to appeal to an ideology he believes that she 
holds, or to something that means something to LILY. Dark Arts, 
bigotry, Voldemorts war... they are all Canon background in the 
marauders era.... draw your own conclusions, I am happy with mine.



Nora:
> See, I don't want to dispute the account given--and I'm not going 
to, on a certain factual level.  But I want to throw a very 
particular wrench into the works, and it's a comparative one.
> 
> We always go, in the evaluation of Snape's various actions, "But 
we don't KNOW, there could be so much more going on", etc., ad 
nauseam.
> 
> Is it too much to suspect that we have a moderate case of that 
> situation going on here as well?
> 
> For one thing, we don't have the ability to seriate here while we 
do with PresentDay!Snape, and that argues even more strongly for a 
> suspension of evaluation.  You can't make good statements about a 
> hapax.  


Yes, Nora there was far more going on... 
Think about it people.... James and Sirius transformed themselves 
into animagi as children, and Severus knew more Dark Arts than most 
seventh graders BEFORE he even *got* to Hogwarts. 
If Adult!Snape can be using Occlumency/Legilimency at every 
convenient coil of the snake... why can't young Severus Snape be 
capable of hurting James Potter without any obvious action on his 
behalf in the scene? He could well be blowing James up with wandless 
magic while he sits there... well probably not actually ... but the 
chance that James was putting himself in danger by taking on Severus 
IS Canon stratospheric... James was *never* a coward..

Valky, who also didn't have to study in High School and remained 
very arrogant about that for a long time... and is very glad of the 
chance to get one more stand in for James before HBP, oh and BTW 
LOVES!! Sirius.