DD knew Moody=Barty Crouch before Polyjuice expired

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 123284


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, caesian <caesian at y...> wrote:
> Why does Dumbledore request that Professor Snape retrieve Winky from 
> the kitchens BEFORE the polyjuice potion had worn off?  I cannot
think of a good reason for her to be present except that the imposter
was Barty Crouch Jr.
> 
> How much of Barty Jr's story did DD already know?  And why?
> 
> If he involved Winky, it seems likely that DD already knew most of
the saga of Mr. Crouch Sr., Winky and Master Barty.  Perhaps he only
discovered this recently, or perhaps he has known for many years.  He
tells Harry earlier that he does not know whether Barty Jr. was
innocent or guilty. <snip>
> 
> So, it seems as if at the time of the third task Dumbledore already 
> knew that an imposter was at Hogwarts, and the true identity of the 
> imposter (Barty Crouch Jr.), but apparently not who was being 
> impersonated.  (He mentions to Harry that he knew Imposter!Moody was 
> not the real Moody only when Imposter!Moody removed Harry after the 
> third task.)
> 
> It may also be significant that it was Professor Snape who was asked
to retrieve Winky.  Perhaps Dumbledore knew Barty Jr. was on campus 
> because Snape had provided this information covertly - in his
function as a spy.  Thus Snape was asked to retrieve Winky because
someone else might have wondered why later. <snip>

Carol responds:
Here's my take on this. I agree that Dumbledore knew that Crouch!Moody
was the imposter before the polyjuice wore off and that's why he sent
Snape to bring Winky. I think DD suspected C!M as an imposter and as
the person who put Harry's name in the Goblet of Fire long before that
but until he disobeyed Dumbledore's direct order by taking Harry from
the field, he could not confirm it. The hard part was not determining
that Crouch!Moody was a bad guy and probably a DE but figuring out
exactly who he was.

Here's what I'm talking about.

The first pieces of the puzzle seem to have nothing to do with
Crouch!Moody at all--the disappearance of Bertha Jorkins, the Dark
Mark cast at the QWC, the wand found in Winky's hand, the apparent
illness of Mr. Crouch. Dumbledore stores all this in his mind for
future reference but probably does not connect it with the appearance
of Harry's name in the Goblet of Fire or with the teacher he has hired
to keep Harry and the other students safe.

Crouch!Moody states his "suspicion" that a powerful Dark witch or
wizard has enchanted the cup to trick it into accepting a fourth
students' name. This is in fact a boast, a confession of what he's
actually done, but it's also intended to make the judges suspicious of
one another. Is it Snape? Is it Karkaroff? But the others, possibly
including Dumbledore, pass it off as merely Moody's paranoia.

Crouch!Moody then does two things that the real Alastor Moody probably
would not have done: he transfigures a student (Draco) into a ferret
and bounces him around, and he not only demonstrates all three
Unforgiveable Curses on spiders but actually casts the Imperius Curse
on his own students (I'm assuming all of them, at least in the fourth
year and up, and not just Harry's class.) Either he asks and receives
Dumbledore's permission for this blatant disregard of the laws of the
WW, probably arguing that he's an ex-auror and that Mr. Crouch has
authorized the aurors to use the Unforgiveable Curses, or he lies to
the students, telling them that he has received Dumbledore's
permission when he hasn't, a bit of information that would reach
Dumbledore's ears rather quickly. Either way, something is out of
kilter and Dumbledore's suspicions are raised a notch.

Then Snape undoubtedly reports his late-night encounter with
Crouch!Moody, along with his suspicion that Harry was walking the
halls in his invisibility cloak and the fact that potion ingredients
are missing from his office. DD knows that the magical eye can see
under invisibility cloaks. "Moody" could see Harry but he let him go
unpunished. Why? And he also knows, as Snape does, that the stolen
ingredients are those used in a polyjuice potion.

Harry survives the Second Task and there is still no real evidence
that whoever is masquerading as Moody is out to kill him, and DD
doesn't yet know who the imposter is. But Mr. Crouch's absence is
suspicious. And when Dumbledore follows Harry to the place where the
demented Mr. Crouch approached him in the forest, they find only the
stupefied Viktor Krum. Mr. Crouch is missing. Crouch!Moody shows up
unasked, telling Dumbledore that Snape sent him. Since Snape is
suspicious of Crouch!Moody and dislikes him, DD almost certainly
suspects that this is a lie. Quite possibly he confirms it by talking
to Snape later. Still, however, there is no solid evidence against the
imposter, and Dumbledore consults with both "Moody" and Fudge about
Mr. Crouch's disappearance. "Innocent until proven guilty."

Trying to tie everything from the events at the QWC to Mr. Crouch's
disappearance together, Dumbledore puts a number of memories into the
Pensieve to be sifted and sorted so he can see them individually and
in relation to one another. Except for the specter of the dead Bertha
Jorkins, who was indirectly connected with Mr. Crouch through her
employment at the Mom, all of these memories relate to people present
when "Moody" made his "powerful Dark witch or wizard" speech: Crouch
himself, Snape, Karkaroff, Ludo Bagman, and the real Moody. Barty Jr.
also comes into the picture at this point but DD does not yet make the
connection. He tells Harry that he doesn't know whether young Barty
was guilty or not, and he has no reason to suspect that the boy didn't
die in Azkaban.

But when Harry disappears after the Third Task, DD realizes that the
Tri-Wizard Cup has been turned into a portkey by the same person who
put Harry's name in the Goblet of Fire. That person has to be the
imposter who has been using polyjuice potion made from ingredients
stolen from Snape's office to impersonate Alastor Moody. He must also
be a Dark wizard with a violent grudge against Mr. Crouch.
Crouch!Moody's action in hurrying Harry away from the field against
DD's orders confirms his guilt but not his true identity. Yet at that
moment, everything DD has been studying in the Pensieve comes
together. Impossible though it seems, the imposter must be Barty
Crouch Jr., convicted by his own father of being a Death Eater. DD's
action in sending Snape for Winky as well as for the veritaserum shows
how confident he is that he has arrived at the correct conclusion.
(Imagine how embarrassing it would be if he had brought Winky to see
Walden Macnair or Antonin Dolohov.)

Snape himself, though he dislikes "Moody" and may have reported some
of his suspicious behavior to DD, is as surprised as MacGonagall to
see Barty Crouch Jr. lying on the floor of "Moody's" office. As good
as Snape usually is at putting two and two together, it's Dumbledore
who solves this mystery thanks to the ever-useful Pensieve. Maybe
Scotland Yard should invest in one.

Carol, who had forgotten that Harry was already seeing visions in GoF