DD knew Moody=Barty Crouch before Polyjuice expired

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 123327


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at y...>
wrote:
> 
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, caesian <caesian at y...> wrote:
> > Why does Dumbledore request that Professor Snape retrieve Winky 
> > from  the kitchens BEFORE the polyjuice potion had worn off?  I 
> > cannot think of a good reason for her to be present except that 
> > the imposter was Barty Crouch Jr.
> > 


> 
> Carol responds:
> Here's my take on this. ....edited...
> 
> ...huge snip...
>
> ... Barty Jr. also comes into the picture at this point but DD does 
> not yet make the connection. He tells Harry that he doesn't know 
> whether young Barty was guilty or not, and he has no reason to 
> suspect that the boy didn't die in Azkaban.
> 
> ...snip more great analysis...
>
> But when Harry disappears after the Third Task, DD realizes that the
> Impossible though it seems, the imposter must be Barty Crouch Jr., 
> convicted by his own father of being a Death Eater. DD's action in 
> sending Snape for Winky as well as for the veritaserum shows
> how confident he is that he has arrived at the correct conclusion.
> ...edited...
> 
> Carol,

bboyminn:

Most excellent analysis Carol, very good indeed, and I'm with you all
the way. However, there is one small clue you forgot. And, oddly, it
is probably a clue we all forgot because we, as readers, have TOO MUCH
information; information that Dumbledore doesn't have.

Listen to these bit and pieces that Harry tells Dumbledore...

--GOF, Am Ed, HB, pg 558--

"What did Mr. Crouch say, Harry?" said Dumbledore...

"Said he wants to warn you...
...said he's done something terrible...
...HE MENTIONED HIS SON... (my emphasis)
...and Bertha Jorkins...
.-- and Voldemort...
... something about Voldemort getting stronger..."

--- end this part ---

So, Harry did drop a clue about Crouch Sr. son. We know the details of
how the reference to Barty Jr was made, but Dumbledore does not, all
he knows is that Barty Sr mentioned his son in connection with
'something terrible' that Barty Sr has done, and has made a further
connection to Voldemort.

Later, in a coversation with Ron and Hermione, Harry reenforces what
he said to Dumbledore and points out that [pg 565] '...he seemed to
think his wife and son were still alive...'. This occurs in the Owlery
when they are sending a note to Sirius, a note which may have
contained not just a reference to Crouch Sr mentioning his son, but
also thinking that his son was still alive.

'...he's done something terrible...' '...he wants to warn
Dumbledore...' '...he mentioned his son...' '...he seemed to think his
son was still alive...'

The connection to Crouch Sr was pretty strong by the end of the third
task, and a hint was drop about Crouch's son being related to the
terrible thing Crouch wanted to warn Dumbledore about. 

As an aside, everyone knows that Moody is odd and eccentric, but I
suspect that Dumbledore was starting to notice odd inconsistencies,
that didn't prove anything, but added to Dumbledore suspicions.

I think when Dumbledore sent for Winky, he wasn't necessarily certain
that Fake!Moody was Crouch Jr, but he has sufficient suspicious to
warrant the elf being there when the Polyjuice wore off. If it wasn't
Barty Jr, then there was no purpose, but certainly no harm, in having
the elf present. However, if it was Barty Jr, it's possible the elf
might be able to help; directly or indirectly, willingly or unwillingly.

So, I think Dumbledore had reasonable suspicion at that point, but I
don't think he knew with absolute certainty that it was Barty Jr.

Just a thought.

Steve/bboyminn