Dumbledore & Dursleys-What DD Knew

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 123391


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "lupinlore" <bob.oliver at c...> wrote:
> 
> <SNIP>
> > 
> > ... even Dumbledore, ..., would agree that he should have gotten 
> > involved ... to insure better treatment for Harry, but every time 
> > those doubts and concerns came up, Dumbledore just reminded 
> > himself that ..., it is still the safest place for Harry.
> > 
> > Also, ... Dumbledore is administering all this from 500 miles 
> > (fair guess) away over 10 years time, and with a very busy
> > schedule.  ...
> > 
> > From his distant outpost and with his limted information, 
> > Dumbledore just keptreminding himself that it was best to keep 
> > Harry out of the wizard world and under the protection of his 
> > family's blood.
> > 


> Lupinlore:
> 
> Very good points, Steve.  Let me see if I've got your arguments
> straight.  Essentially you are arguing ... He keeps reminding 
> himself of the (...) dangers Harry might face in the WW, 
> and over time let's himself get "used" to the situation. 
> Finally (say in OOTP) he looks back and says something like "how 
> did I ever allow things to come to this?" ...
> 
> That is a very believable scenario.  Like most such, it explains
> without, as you say, excusing.  However, like most such scenarios it
> falls afoul of the "epitome of goodness" definition that JKR has 
> laid down for DD.  I.E. such neglect does not equal "epitome of 
> goodness."
> 
> 
> Lupinlore


bboyminn:

First, JKR called Dumbledore the Epitome of Goodness, not the Epitome
of Perfection. Being the finest example of 'goodness' (in the books)
does not make Dumbledore perfect; he makes human mistakes and
miscalculations. 

Next, I think Harry was in a certain degree of isolation from the
wizard world. It's not like Dumbledore or Wizarding Social Services
was stopping by one or twice a year for tea and a chat. A choice that
is logical since the less contact, the less the wizard world would be
reminded of Harry and his location. Conceivably this may also have
been a condition set down by the Dursleys; 'We'll kept Harry as long
as we are assured that there won't be any of those /abnormal/ people
lurking about'. 

Also, let's consider the first 5 years of Harry's life. The Dursleys
couldn't have been too cruel to Harry, he survived. Although, they
probably gave him limited contact and no affection, he was, none the
less, feed, housed, and clothed. 

The key point here is that short of Harry suffering significant
physical injury or blatant abuse, things seem to be going fine; not
great but adequately fine. Harry is alive and well. So, in a sense,
Dumbledore has 'let it ride' for five long years. During this time,
there would have been little to report. The best Mrs. Figg could do
was report that Harry was still alive and unharmed, even though those
same reports might have pointed out what irredeemable jerks the
Dursleys were.

Around five, both Dudley and Harry are becoming more self-aware and
self-determined. By this time, Harry has become sufficiently developed
and sufficiently self-aware, that it would have been painfully clear
that he was being treated much much much different than Dudley. 

This would have also been the time when Dudley was most able to start
asserting himself, and joining in the oppression of Harry. At this
stage, the best Mrs. Figg's reports could indicate is that Dudley was
becoming a mean-spirited, brutish little lout, but none the less,
Harry was alive and well. 

Now Harry is seven, and he and Dudley start school (or whatever age
they start school). For large parts of the day, Mrs. Figg would be
unable to observe Harry. Although, I suppose on rare occassion she
could wander past the school during play time and witness Harry's
isolation and/or some of Dudley and the gang's antics. But bad as it
may have seemed, Harry was still in school and learning, away from the
perils of the wizard world, and alive and well; unpleasantly well, but
well none the less.

Now Harry is nine or ten, and it's clear that the Dursely are
oppressing and dominating Harry in a most unpleasant way. Still Harry
has endured this long, and soon he would return to Hogwarts. All he
has to do is hold on and endure a little longer.

Now, Harry is 11, 12, or 13 and he spends most of his time at school.
Certianly a strong boy like Harry can endure a few weeks with the
Dursleys during summer holiday.

Through it all, when ever Dumbledore had doubts, he just reminded
himself that unpleasant as it may be, Harry was safest at the Dursley's.

So, yes, the abuse creeps up on DUmbledore. As Harry gets older and
more self-determine, he is oppressed to an ever increasing degree.
Dumbledore's not 'used' to it, it's just that from a distance, safety
always overpowers the idea of a more pleasant living environment. 

But now Harry is not 'from a distance'; Dumbledore has to face him and
what happened to him in an up close and personal way. Now, Dumbledore
is tempering what happened with his genuine affection for a real boy
that he sees and knows. Now that Harry has become affectionately
humanized, and not just a /plan/ to keep him safe, Dumbledore feels
the pain and guilt of what Harry endured because of his choices. Now,
in hindsight, I'm sure Dumbledore greatly and truly wishes he had done
something to make Harry's life a little more pleasant.

As Harry gets older (age 1 thru 10), the oppressive environment gets
stronger, but Harry also get closer to coming to Hogwarts. Dumbledore
is engaged in a delicate balancing act, and from his distant outpost,
as I've already said, safety always wins out.

Now, as of the latest book (5-OotP), Harry has endured stress, strain,
pain, and loss beyond what many many adults have endured in their
lifetime. Now, Dumbledore can't let the 'affectionately humaized' boy
he cares about continue to be treated with less than the respect he
deserves. I'm sure independent of whether Dumbledore instigated the
end of book meeting with the Dursleys, the members of that group all
feel strongly that Harry has suffered enough, and the Dursleys should
not be allowed to compound that suffering.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bboyminn