James, a paragon of virtue? Snape, a paragon of virtue?

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 123441


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "vmonte" <vmonte at y...> wrote:
> 
> >Valky wrote:
> Duty, gallantry, honour, and of course the saving people thing.
> Expect it to be canonised James in HBP... a paragon of virtue? a
> saint?... in a sense, yes, absolutely.
> Remember, James risked his life for all of them, it *was* an act of
> selfless endangerment.
> 
> vmonte responds:
> Maybe you're right. But I think that if what you are saying is 
true, James only started thinking this way because of Lily. I just 
don't see James, before Lily, as someone who thinks things through. 


Valky replies:
Sorry bout the snip. I agree James didn't really choose his friends 
all that wisely, and hence not so much a thinker in that respect.
I attribute that flaw to another knightly quality, ego. This is 
something that James and Snape shared. Part of their fearlessness 
comes from a sense of outright superiority of the foe, invincibility 
if you please. Harry, is slightly less proud and arrogant than his 
father, but nevertheless he has it too. 
aside: (I am wondering if Jen Reese is enjoying this much :D Some of 
your Arthurian legend expertise would be great here Jen!) 
In a sense James didn't choose his *friends* so much as he chose his 
allies and his foes. He *was* arrogant, as Snape accuses, but his 
choices define his sense of highness. His choice was not power, but 
right. Leading the front, faith in the ultimate truth and a touch of 
mercy, that's the deep James... Just my opinion, BTW. On the surface 
in the Pensieve we see a young James head-filled with emotive 
principles such as 'An eye for an eye' 'Danger gleams like sunshine 
to a brave man's eyes' 'The strong do what they can and the weak 
suffer what they must.' ...... But with the same proud, arrogant but 
noble heart.
So to sum it up, I'd say you're right and Lily did put James head 
straight on a few things. OTOH he had the heart of a knight and Lily 
changed nothing about that, because that is what she fell in love 
with.


Vmonte:
> I, on the other hand, see Lily as the "strategist," the one who 
would think everything through. She is afterall the mastermind 
behind Harry's survival, isn't she? This is also an act of selfless 
> endangerment, right?   
> 

Valky replies:
Yes 100% agreed. Lily was different to James, she was infinitely 
merciful and compassionate with just that little tiny touch of 
steel. Yes she was very smart and brave but she was less concious of 
these things about herself. Conciously, she was selfless, an 
altogether epitome of motherliness. But there will be minor flaws to 
her character, she will become 3D and human soon, count on it. :D
Personally, I think this will be the redemption of James in Harry's 
eyes, and not the Prank. I think Harry will find out just how much 
his mother needed, trusted and loved his father and the absolute 
bottom line why. 



> >Valky:
> That's a very bold statement Vivian. And I agree. :D
> Love him or hate him, Snape is not nice. Its the inner struggle 
that fascinates, not the question of whether its there, for me.
> 
> vmonte:
> 
> Yes, it's the inner struggle that fascinates all right.  :)
> 

Valky:
About Snapes inner struggle, we'll find out, I am sure, why Lily 
could never love Snape and vice versa. Or maybe "mudblood" *is* the 
encapsulation of that. OTOH I can't wait to find out who *did* love 
Snape, if anybody.