[HPforGrownups] Re: MAJOR MAJOR SPOILER - THE ALCHEMIST THEORY IN TWO ACTS

[hells456]

No: HPFGUIDX 132004


1. Hells - Tom Riddle was already using the name Lord Voldemort with his
friends, as he says in CoS.
Ting - True, but he was still the boy Tom Riddle while at Hogwarts. Lord Voldemort didn't inspire fear until much later imo.


Hells now: sorry, I misunderstood you here, I thought you were saying he went off and became Lord Voldemort afterwards, not that he was already on that path.


5. Hells - Why would Dumbledore allow Harry's upbringing to mirror
Riddle's? Having him grow up orphaned, unhappy and unloved is running
the risk of turning out another dark wizard. We know there are other
people who can protect him.
Ting - I don't think that anyone was really "watching" Riddle grow up as
much as Harry was being watched. There clearly was an advantage to
harry being sheltered from the WW.


Hells now: To my mind, Harry was mostly unaware of being watched, I was more concerned with the actual nature of his unhappy childhood. I still don't see exactly why he was better off with muggles. We know he is safe with Dumbledore, the Weasleys, at Hogwarts, in Diagon Alley and probably other places. The only disadvantage I see if he had been brought up in the WW is that he really would have been arrogant like his dad. What advantages/disadvantages do you see?
  

10. Hells - So was the entire book 3 pointless? If it was a set-up there
was no betrayal, no spy in the ranks of the Marauders. Do you really
think that Dumbledore was cruel enough to ruin the lives of the
Potters, Sirius, Peter and Remus? That he let the whole WW believe
that Sirius was evil? That Peter's family thought he was dead for 12
years? Why didn't Dumbledore hold his hands up and say his plan went
wrong? That he was directly responsible for Neville's parents because
he allowed Neville to be a prophecy candidate?
Ting - {sound of brain exploding!} whoa -- lots of questions there - will
handle later....


Hells now: oops, and I had just cleaned my monitor... :-)

12. Hells - I thought the Order was set up to defeat Voldemort, but you
suggest that Voldemort only attacked them to pay back Dumbledore. What
do you think the Order was doing before then?
Ting - Voldemort was attacking EVERYONE and EVERYTHING that didn't side
with him. The Order being loyal to DD was merely a more appetizing target.
 

Hells now: again I misread you, I thought you said he only went after them to get Dumbledore for lying about immortality.

 
13. Hells - I don't see why Lily had to die (or James for that matter)
they knew Harry couldn't be harmed so why put up a fight? Lily at
least could have merrily stood back and enjoyed seeing Voldemort
vaporised.
Ting - aw, c'mon - she's a MUM! And the dark lord was attacking her
firstborn after killing her husband. There were no guarantees.


Hells now: I'm a mum too and I would kill for my child. What I couldn't understand was the difference between leaving the house for him to be AK'd and watching him rebound the curse at Voldemort. As a mother she wouldn't be able to leave him there with Dumbledore either. If there were no guarantees I don't believe the Potters would have gone along with it, no matter what the end prize is.

  
16. Hells -  Your version of Dumbledore has a lot of blood on his hands,
absolutely no regard for the consequences of his actions, and little
to no morals. Do you believe the ESE Dumbledore theories?
Ting - Absolutely not! A strong leader has to do what (s)he has to do -
and tough choices must be made for the good (and survival) of the
Wizarding community.


Hells now: I understand this, but the questions I asked earlier reflect situations that would not have impacted the wizarding community. There was no benefit to Sirius  being in  Azkaban, the Longbottoms being incapacitated, Peter being stuck as a rat with his family in mourning, Remus losing his best friends. thinking another was dead and another was a betrayer. The only benefit I see is to Dumbledore himself because he wouldn't be seen as incompetent and reckless. In fact these incidents would negatively impact the community because they have four less Order members.


Ting - Thanks for your compliment! I hope I answered most of your questions
to your satisfaction.


Hells now: this is the best theory I have heard in a long time. I love the cyclical nature of it, just the sort of thing JKR uses. 

A lot more could be explained if you believe Harry is the Heir of Gryffindor. If that was the case then Dumbledore may not have a choice, it would have to be Harry, and he had to use Tom. This would absolve him of a lot of evilness. Maybe only the founders' Heirs can wield enough power to become a truly Dark Wizard or defeat one. I wonder whose descendent Grindelwald was - Ravenclaw? I believe that Dumbledore is Hufflepuff's heir.





		
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