HELP! was Re: Paradox of Time Travel in PoA

[tylerswaxlion]

No: HPFGUIDX 132069

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Karen Barker" 
<karenabarker at y...> wrote:> 
> OK I've snipped some of what you said out and I do understand the 
> point you're making and can accept that there is one linear timeline 
> with H/Hr and TT-H/TT-Hr both moving through it at the same time but 
> from a slightly different perspective.  This does actually make 
> sense to me.  What I don't understand is how can TT-H have the 
> memory of a patronus having been cast to save H/Hr & Sirius from the 
> dementor attack that hasn't already happened yet in the linear time 
> that they are both currently travelling through. 

The problem is that Star Trek and _Back to the Future_ have written 
entertaining stories that are COMPLETELY illogical.  Star Trek 
especially has dozens of stories where things happen, then characters 
go back and change the past, or where characters loop and loop till 
they "get it right".  -Back to the Future- even violates its own rules 
of time-travel and past-changing.  They are entertaining stories, but 
logically flawed.  PoA is logically sound, as far as the time travel 
goes.


The is one time line, but there is NEVER a "first time through" for 
anyone BUT Harry and Hermione.  A future version of Harry always casts 
the Patronus.  At the same time, Harry thinks he sees his father 
casting the Patronus, and so is not boggled at seeing himself.

There was no "first time" where no Patronus was cast or where 
something else saved Harry, Sirius, and Hemione because the TIME 
happened once.  Time doesn't change: Harry and Hermione travel 
*through* it.

The only 'canonical' excuse for a changable past is when Hermione 
quotes McGonnigal as saying people have travelled to the past and 
killed their earlier selves, which is a logical fallacy.

But what exactly did McGonnigal say?

WE DON'T KNOW.  We have Hermione's hearsay, and while generally that's 
good enough for me, I think JKR makes a big point in PoA that Hermione 
CANNOT always be trusted.  She's smart, the cleverest witch of her 
generation, but she's fallable.  

Harry explains how he knew he could cast the Patronus: because he 
realized he had NOT seen his *father*, he had seen *himself* time 
travelling.  Being the older version of Harry, having experienced the 
past once, he understood he was there twice.

But after explaining it, he asks Hermione if she understands, and *she 
doesn't!*

Hermione is still confused--despite the fact she lived through it with 
Harry and despite the fact she was time travelling all year.  She 
followed the rules strictly, but didn't understand them instinctually--
just as with flying a broom.  Harry has to study, but for some things, 
he is just talented.  He's a natural flyer.  He has a knack for DADA.  
He grasped time travel, even without knowing all the 'rules'.

I think Hermione's fallibilty may come up in the future, and her 
tendency to be too literal may end up causing as much harm as help.  
Her intentions will be pure, but in the final battle, I believe 
Harry's instincts will be much more important than Hermione's book-
learning. (and I'm a big supporter of book-learning!)