ADMIN: Revised Humongous Bigfile, via Owl Post

hpfgu_elves hpfgu.elves at gmail.com
Wed Jul 6 02:41:12 UTC 2005


No: HPFGUIDX 132081

The Humongous Bigfile: 

Posting Rules You Never Knew You Had to Follow
and How to Conform to Them Now That You've Signed Up

We expect that you will fully understand the beauty of the softly 
humming computer with its shimmering 
screen, the delicate power of energy that can creep through human 
nerves, bewitching the mind, 
ensnaring the senses... we can teach you how to bottle words, brew 
theories, even stopper boredom...

1. INTRODUCTION -- [Go]
    1.1 Welcome! -- [Go]
    1.2 Legal Issues -- [Go]
    1.3 Account Settings and Yahoo Information -- [Go]
    1.4 Getting Started: Finding Your Way Around HPFGU -- [Go]
    1.5 List Administration -- [Go]
    1.6 Communications from List Administration -- [Go]
    1.7 How to Get Help -- [Go]
    1.8 Posting by new members -- [Go]

2. GENERAL COURTESY, NETIQUETTE AND HPFGU-SPECIFIC CONVENTIONS AND 
POLICIES -- [Go]
    2.1 Be Courteous -- [Go]
    2.2 Use the Right List -- [Go]
    2.3 Quoted Material -- [Go]
        2.3.1 Attribution -- [Go]
    2.3.2 Snipping -- [Go]
    2.4 Keeping Posting Volume Manageable -- [Go]
        2.4.1 Make Your Post Worthwhile -- [Go]
        2.4.2 Combining -- [Go]
        2.4.3 No One-liner or Me-too Posts -- [Go]
        2.4.4 No Introductory Posts -- [Go]
        2.4.5 Post Limits -- [Go]
    2.5 Spelling, Punctuation and Grammar (and Proofreading!) -- [Go]
    2.6 Subject Headings -- [Go]
        2.6.1 Prefixing -- [Go]
    2.7 Observe Spoiler Rules -- [Go]
    2.8 Failure to Observe Posting Guidelines -- [Go]

3. OTHER USEFUL INFORMATION -- [Go]
    3.1 Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) -- [Go]
    3.2 What All Those Abbreviations Stand For -- [Go]
    3.3 HPfGU's Accumulated Wisdom -- [Go]
        3.3.1 Fantastic Posts and Where to Find Them -- [Go]
        3.3.2 Recommended Posts Database -- [Go]
    3.4 The Files, Polls, Links, Database, Photos Sections -- [Go]

4. OTHER AREAS OF ONLINE HARRY POTTER FANDOM: RESOURCE SITES -- [Go]

5. ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS -- [Go] 



1. Introduction


1.1 Welcome!

Welcome to Harry Potter for Grownups (HPfGU)! The purpose of this 
group is to provide a fun, friendly, interesting place for adults to 
enjoy in-depth and thought-provoking discussion of the Harry Potter 
books.

Before you dive right into the discussions, we require that you read 
this document, which provides important information about 
participating in this group (including our posting rules in section 
2), as well as our Most Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ).

Most of our members are over 18 and they hail from all around the 
world and all walks of life. Mature teenagers may enjoy the group, 
but we cannot, for legal reasons, accept members under the age of 
13. We are a large group (over 17,000 members), and typically 
between 50 and 150 messages a day are posted.


1.2 Legal Issues

By posting on any of the HPFGU lists, you agree to adhere to the 
Yahoo Terms of Use.

Further, in so posting, you also grant the HPfGU List Administrators 
the license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt and 
publicly display such post(s) for the purposes of providing and 
promoting the various HPfGU groups and sites.

Links to electronic texts (e-texts) of any Harry Potter book and any 
file containing the audio versions of the books or the movie(s) may 
violate the Yahoo TOU, so please do not post any or we'll have to 
delete the post. It's also a copyright violation to reproduce 
substantial portions of any article or book, but you can post links 
to them.

Material posted to other forums is also copyrighted and may be 
forwarded to HPfGU lists only if the post states that the express 
permission of author has been granted, even if the author also 
belongs to HPfGU. Otherwise, you can provide a link.


1.3 Account Settings and Yahoo Information

When you join a Yahoo Group, you are automatically set to receive 
individual messages, so if you prefer something else make sure to 
change this by going to the homepage of the group and clicking 
on "Edit My Membership."

More details about the different settings and helpful information 
about Yahoo can be found here.

If you have any questions, feel free to e-mail your List Elf, or e-
mail the list administrators directly at HPforGrownups-
owner at yahoogroups.com.


1.4 Getting Started: Finding Your Way Around HPfGU

HPfGU has four main groups:



HPforGrownups (the "Main List") is for discussion of the HP books 
(i.e., the 'canon').


HPFGU-Movie is for discussion of the HP films


HPFGU-Announcements is for announcements of new sites, merchandise, 
fanfic updates, etc.


HPFGU-OTChatter is for off-topic discussion of just about anything; 
any questions or discussion about how to navigate JKR's website 
should go here.

HPfGU also has several auxiliary groups:



HPFGU-Convention, where you can learn about HP conferences and other 
gatherings. 

HPfGU-Feedback, a forum for discussing list policies, 
administration, and technical issues. You need special approval to 
join this list (to verify that you're a member of HPfGU). Follow the 
instructions on the HPfGU-Feedback home page. 

Various regional groups, so that list members can arrange meet-ups. 
Links to these can be found in the Links section on the main list, 
in the Regional HPfGU Lists folder.


HPforGrownups-Archives, which contains all the messages which would 
not fit in the Messages Section of YahooGroups, including messages 
from our old Yahoo Club: HPforGrownups-Archives (YahooClubs / 
YahooGroups 0-31999), HPforGrownups-Archives II (32000-52999), and 
HPforGrownups-Archives III (53000-82999). Thanks to Paul Kippes for 
the wwwizardry involved. :-) These zip files can be downloaded to 
your hard drive for keyword searches. 
All these groups and more can be found through our Portkey. You'll 
note that some of the groups have "HPfGU-" at the front, while 
others have "HP4GU-" or even "HPforGrownups-". We're sorry - they 
were created by a variety of people and are not standardized. Oops. 
Our bad.

Sunday Chat: We have a weekly chat on Sundays from roughly 2 pm US 
Eastern (7pm in the UK, 11am US West Coast). To get to the party, go 
to any Yahoo Chat Room (for example, the one on our main list), then 
type /join hp:1


1.5 List Administration

The List Administration Team, aka the List Elves, is collectively 
responsible for all administrative and policy decisions governing 
the entire HPfGU community. A list of the current and former elves 
can be found in the Admin Files folder; the file is entitled "List 
Elves":



1.6 Communications from List Administration

Onlist messages from the admin team will always have the 
prefix "ADMIN" in the subject line, and they will be signed by a 
list elf on behalf of the admin team. The admin team uses Admin 
messages primarily to announce new policies and other matters of 
interest to the HPFGU community, and to issue periodic reminders of 
our posting guidelines. Please read and adhere to these messages. 
When list elves and poltergeists post on their own behalf, you will 
know this because they are not signed on behalf of the admin team.

Members should not query or discuss an Admin message onlist. If you 
have a question or comment about an Admin message or any policy, 
please contact the admin team at HPforGrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com 
or post about it on the Feedback list.

The list elves also send messages offlist to members, for example, 
to welcome new members, answer members' questions, provide posting 
guidance for new and old members, and send howlers. These are also 
official communications and will be signed with the list elf's elf 
name on behalf of the admin team. Make sure that you regularly check 
the email account you used to join the group.


1.7 How to Get Help

Simple. e-mail your personal List Elf, who will have contacted you 
within a couple of days after you joined or write to the admin team 
at HPforGrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com.

Help Desk: We want all of our members who wish to post to be able to 
do so without it being a burden, but we realize that our standards 
for spelling and grammar might be problematic for some. So, we offer 
members with any issues that might make posting difficult (such as 
dyslexia, visual impairments, English as a second language) the 
services of our Help Desk. The Help Desk would be happy to proofread 
your posts, or help work out the best way for you to participate 
fully in our community. If you think you could benefit from their 
help, please contact them at HPforGrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com.

Please, use these resources. List Elves love getting mail. Contact 
us with anything you're not sure about. Technical problems. Book 
questions. Legal issues. If we don't know, we can find out for you. 
Really, e-mail us!


1.8 Posting by New Members

To help members adjust to our list's unique posting conventions, all 
new members start out on "moderated" status. This means that your 
first few posts will automatically take a detour to our List Elves. 
One of the elves will review the post to make sure it is formatted 
correctly and conforms to the posting guidelines before sending it 
on to the main list.

The elves may make some minor edits to your post, such as correcting 
typos, adding a signature, fixing the subject line, snipping 
extraneous quoted material, etc. Please make sure to look at your 
post when it's reached the list and make note of any edits made; an 
elf may also contact you to explain any edits made to your post.The 
substance of the post will never be changed, but if you'd rather we 
not make any edits, please let us know.

The elves may instead return your post to you with a note of 
explanation so that you may make the edits yourself. Please don't be 
offended; this is quite normal as we realize that our posting 
conventions are a bit unique and may take some getting used to. 
Sometimes a post will appear on the list that's a lot like a post 
that was sent back to you. That doesn't mean the elves are 
selectively enforcing the rules. When unmoderated members violate 
list rules, the infractions are addressed offlist after the fact.

As we do return posts or contact people offlist about their posts, 
please keep an eye on your e-mail account, especially while you're 
still on moderated status and especially if your posts are not 
showing up on the list.

Sometimes a list elf will add an "Admin Note" (a short comment) at 
the end of a post; this doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the 
post, usually it's a reminder directed to readers of the post. For 
example, "Though this post is on-topic, please remember when 
replying that OT subject matter should be sent to HPfGU-OTChatter."

Moderated status also applies to the OTChatter, Movie, and Feedback 
lists. All posts to the Announcements list are moderated; please 
note that this group is not a discussion group, but serves as 
a "community bulletin board". Please also note, the posting rules 
below in Section 2 apply to all our groups.


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2. GENERAL COURTESY, NETIQUETTE AND HPFGU-SPECIFIC CONVENTIONS AND 
POLICIES


Our posting conventions may be summarized as ordinary netiquette 
plus a few quirks that we think are particularly worthwhile in our 
community. Please observe the following:


2.1 Be Courteous

Do not flame, send obscenities or spam, engage in other 
discourteous, disrespectful or illegal behavior or discuss list 
policy onlist (send comments to HPforGrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com 
instead). We welcome debate, but do not attack or insult other list 
members.

If you disagree with someone's message, no matter how strongly, 
please respect the other person's right to his or her own opinion. 
Cite canon to support your arguments and give chapter references; 
when expressing an opinion (as opposed to citing canon) or other 
beliefs (e.g., religious) be sure to make this clear ("I believe..." 
or "In my opinion...").

If you do wish to argue against the post, do so by building up your 
own case, rather than just knocking down the other person's. Your 
post should advance the discussion and not merely repeat arguments 
you've already made. There is no need to have the last word in a 
discussion. Difficult as it is, when faced with irreconcilable 
differences, list etiquette means it is better to walk away.

Also consider how other members of our diverse international 
community might react to your post and remember that sarcasm can be 
difficult to convey in written form. When in doubt, save your 
message overnight and reread it in the light of dawn.


2.2 Use the Right List

Put on your Sorting Hat and send your posts to the correct list.

All posts to the main list should discuss the "canon," that is, the 
written works of JK Rowling. Discussion of information about the 
books and characters provided by JK Rowling in her interviews or 
website is also permitted.

Posts that discuss the movies should go to HPFGU-Movie, including 
posts that use the movies to make a point about the books or that 
use the movies as a jumping-off point for canon discussion. Any post 
that does not discuss the books or movies (such as how to navigate 
JK Rowling's website) should go to HPFGU-OTChatter. Posts that 
announce or publicize other websites, groups, fics, etc., should be 
made to HPFGU-Announcements.


2.3 Quoted Material:

2.3.1 Attribution

Please put quoted material before your own comments, and identify 
the author at the beginning of the quote. When replying to a post 
containing comments from more than one person, make sure you 
attribute each quote to the proper person.

Please preface your comments with your name or handle (for 
example, "Snapeskitten:") or sign your posts at the bottom with your 
name or pseudonym -- it helps people quoting you to properly 
attribute your comments to you. Do not use "Now me:" as readers of 
down-thread responses may have difficulty properly attributing your 
comments. Finally, leave some blank space between the quote and your 
comments.

Please clearly indicate quoted material by using chevrons or angle 
brackets [>], which Yahoo and many e-mail programs insert 
automatically; or by putting quoted material between quotation marks.


2.3.2 Snipping

People do not like to have to scroll through acres of irrelevant 
material to find the part you're replying to (not to mention your 
new comments!) so please snip (delete) all quoted material, leaving 
only the minimum necessary for others to understand your reply. This 
basic consideration helps those with slow internet connections and 
bandwidth concerns.

Snipping properly can be trickier than it sounds, though, so here 
are some additional guidelines:


You should assume that anyone reading your response has already read 
all of the other messages in the thread, so it is not necessary to 
reproduce the gist of the entire thread in your reply. 
If you've quoted more than a paragraph without inserting a comment 
of your own, or if the quoted material is longer than your own 
remarks, you probably haven't snipped enough. 
If you are using Yahoo's automatic attribution feature (which 
happens when hitting "reply" to a message), please make sure to 
remove any unnecessary information, including names of people who 
are not being quoted in your message. Don't forget to delete Yahoo 
footers and ads at the end of the post. 
As both attribution and snipping can be confusing at first, we ask 
that before you post to the list you first read our Formatting 
Tutorial, which can be found in the Admin Files folder in the Files 
section on the main list.


2.4 Keeping the Posting Volume Manageable

To help keep our posting volume manageable, please do the following:


read the entire thread before posting, and don't merely repeat
what's already been said 
combine all responses on the same topic into a single post 
limit your posting volume to no more than three a day 
don't post a one-line response 
don't post to ask a simple factual question 
send comments like "me too!" or LOL!" offlist, or cleverly insert 
them into a longer, more substantive post 
don't post anything that violates the TOU (see section 1.2)


2.4.1 Make Your Post Worthwhile

The best posts are not just written; they are constructed, with an 
introduction, argument, supporting evidence from canon, and 
conclusion. We strongly encourage posters to take their time writing 
posts, and to consider before posting whether the post will add 
anything new to the discussion or merely repeat things that have 
already been said.

Before starting a new thread, check to see if there has been a 
similar discussion in the last few weeks.


2.4.2 Combining

Read the entire thread before posting, and combine all responses on 
the same topic (even if they are in different threads) into one 
post. To do this, you can simply copy the quotes you're responding 
to into an email as you read through the threads, holding off 
posting until you're finished. Also, Yahoo's threading function 
often fails to pick up all the posts in a thread, so please also 
check the subject headings of recent posts before responding.


2.4.3 No One-liner or Me-too Posts

Do not post one-line responses. We know they can be very humorous, 
but please insert them into a longer, more substantive post. 
Similarly, do not post just to say "great post!" or "me, too!" (even 
if it takes you three paragraphs to do it). Onlist compliments are 
welcome, but only as part of a substantive response. If you have 
nothing to add, please send your compliments offlist.


2.4.4 No Introductory Posts

Don't post just to say "Hi, I'm Melanie from Wisconsin." We do want 
to get to know you, but conventions have to be adjusted for a list 
that gets an average of 10-20 new subscribers in one day. Instead, 
include your introduction within your first substantive post, or 
post it to OT-Chatter.


2.4.5 Post Limits

As a courtesy to other listmembers, please try to limit your posting 
volume to no more than three a day. Although this is not a strict 
daily limit, please observe it as a guideline, as excessive posting 
is a violation of posting rules.


2.5 Spelling, Punctuation and Grammar (and Proofreading!)

Use standard English grammar, standard spelling, capitalization, and 
punctuation. Bear in mind that HPFGU members come from many 
countries, and some speak English as a second or third language, 
making it imperative that all members use standard English.

This includes using capital letters at the beginning of 
sentences, "I" when referring to yourself, and proper names. Periods 
should be at the end of sentences, commas in the middle to show 
phrasing, and question marks at the end of questions. Please 
restrain yourself from using multiple exclamation marks or question 
marks.

Never use all lower case letters or, worse still, all CAPITAL 
LETTERS. It is visually jarring and using all caps is considered 
SHOUTING.


Do not use netspeak. Some common abbreviations are fine 
(the "btw," "iirc," "afaik" type) but using numbers or single 
letters for words ("2" for "to", "u" for "you", "r" for "are", etc.) 
are not.


Please write with paragraphs, separating each of them with an empty 
line (like this section). This "white space" makes it much easier on 
the eyes, as it is exceedingly straining to read long blocks of 
unbroken text.


Before hitting the 'send' button, please take a few minutes to look 
over your post and correct any typos, spelling/punctuation errors, 
or problems with sentence structure or capitalization. This will 
make it much easier to read and help in getting across your point.


If you're used to forums where speed is important (chat rooms, role 
playing games, etc.), it's easy to fall out of the habit of 
proofreading. Here, however, your post will be as relevant in twelve 
hours as it is now. 

2.6 Subject Headings

Use appropriate subject headings so that others can find the topics 
that interest them most (e.g., not "Digest 5000," and not "Snape's 
greasy hair" if the topic has changed to "Lupin's gray hair"). Not 
everyone has a good threading function on their e-mail. If you are 
combining responses to more than one post, please change the subject 
heading to reflect that (e.g., House Elves/Hogwarts Plumbing/Evil! 
Albus).


2.6.1 Prefixing

We've found that some topics provoke a strong reaction. Some people 
run screaming at the sight of them, while others can't get enough. 
As a courtesy to other readers, please use the prefixes listed here.


FILK: for HP song parodies

SHIP: Canon-supported speculation about romantic relationSHIPs 
between the characters 
TBAY (Theory Bay): HPfGU's wild and wacky role-playing posting 
style, featuring cyber-action role-playing (CARP) using fictional 
settings such as Theory Bay and/or extended metaphors to make a 
canon point. For more information and examples, visit Hypothetic 
Alley.


2.7 Observe Spoiler Rules

If any spoiler rules are in effect, observe them. Also, please be 
considerate when revealing spoilers from other works (such as The 
Lord of the Rings), keeping in mind that many members will not have 
read those books.

In other words, observe basic netiquette and the conventions of the 
list. If you're not sure of either, ask your List Elf or contact the 
Admin Team at HPforGrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com. We lives to 
serve, sirs and misses!


2.8 Failure to Observe Posting Guidelines

We all make mistakes from time to time, and occasional lapses, such 
as spelling and grammar errors, will not earn anyone detention.

However, ignoring our netiquette or posting conventions will result 
in an offlist reminder. Repeated violations or more egregious ones, 
such as personal attacks on other list members, or doing anything 
that could be construed as illegal, will result in an offlist 
Howler. Receiving too many Howlers could result in you being placed 
back on moderated status or even losing posting privileges.

For security reasons, we will place anyone who sends spam or viruses 
to the list on moderated status immediately. If this was inadvertent 
on your part, please let us know so your privileges can be restored.

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3. Other Useful Information

 

3.1 Frequently Asked Questions

HPfGU has put together a list of answers to Frequently Asked 
Questions. Please read them before posting. They can be found here, 
and they are also available in the Admin Files folder in the Files 
section of the main list.


3.2 What All Those Abbreviations Stand For

We've collected a list of the most common abbreviations used at 
HPfGU, including internet abbreviations, HP abbreviations, fanfic 
terms, emoticons -- and put it into a separate file called 
HPfGU_Abbreviations.txt which can be found in the Admin Files folder 
in the Files section on the main list.

And don't forget to check out Inish Alley where you'll find a 
complete list of acronyms coined by HPfGU members to memorialize 
their favorite theories. This can be found in the Database section 
on the main list:


3.3 HPFGU's Accumulated Wisdom:

3.3.1 Fantastic Posts and Where to Find Them

HPFGU's Fantastic Posts is a series of topical essays based on the 
great posts of yesteryear. They cover a wide range of topics, from 
JKR to the HP world to the characters, books and fans. All members 
should read them -- they're witty, entertaining and informative (low-
calorie, too!).


3.3.2 Recommended Posts Database

As a supplement to the Fantastic Posts essays, the two Recommended 
Posts database tables (pre- and post-OOP), found in the Database 
section, contain lists of posts identified by various readers as 
great posts. We welcome nominations from all our members. If you 
read a really thoughtful and well written and/or groundbreaking post 
that you think everyone should read, drop us a line at HPforGrownups-
owner at yahoogroups.com.


3.4 The Files, Polls, Links, Database, Photos Sections

Lots to be found in these sections, ranging from excellent essays, 
old contests, pictures, photos of list members, film locations, 
possible geographic locations for places in the books and all sorts 
of other things. Check out our polls, where you can register your 
opinions on a variety of topics, and wander through the Database 
section where we have a number of tables you might like. Loads of 
links to other places around the HP fandom in the Links section, 
too. All can be found via the lefthand menu of the group's homepage.

Be sure to check out these sections in the OTChatter and Movie 
groups, too.

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4. Other Areas of Online Harry Potter Fandom: Resource Sites

You'll often see various websites and forums referenced at HPfGU; 
these are excellent resources to draw upon for the discussions:

J.K. Rowling Official Site - If you thought JKR was cool before, you 
should see what she's doing for her fans! Frequently updated by The 
Woman Herself, this web site contains interesting tidbits, trivia, 
rumor-squashing, news items, and canon clues.

The HP Lexicon - Winner of JKR's Fan Site Award July 2004, the 
Lexicon is produced by HPfGU member Steve Vander Ark and is perhaps 
the most complete resource to the Harry Potter books apart from JK 
Rowling (and she admits to using it sometimes when writing away from 
home!). It deals only with facts from the books and interviews, and 
not speculation. It's a truly fantastic work and should be read by 
every fan.

The Leaky Cauldron - A news site for everything HP, contributed to 
by various HPfGUers including Melissa A. and Heidi Tandy. JKR is 
known to frequent this site.

Quick Quotes - A great tool for searching all the transcripts of JKR 
interviews that are posted online.

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5. Acknowledgements:

Various incarnations of this document have been written and coded by 
Amy Z, Debbie, ~Joy~, Kelley, Maria, Queer as John, and Wendy, with 
many contributions, blatant nickings, and edits from various 
sources, including list elves, poltergeists, and Members Like You.

Do you have comments or questions about this file? Do you have a 
question not answered here? Ask your list elf or e-mail the list 
administrators directly at HPforGrownups-Owner at yahoogroups.com.

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Revised June 14, 2005













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