Draco an underdog?

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 132082

> >>Alla:
> We differ in evaluating the seriousness of what Draco says. To me it
> is as if he starts the fight physically, or almost something like
> this.
> If you don't want to say that Harry is defending himself, although I
> am still keen on this definition, how about responding to Draco's
> provocation?

Betsy Hp:
Oh yes, Harry is *definitely* responding to Draco's provocation.  
That's why I agree that Draco does reap what he sows.  Sometimes the 
response is over the top, to my mind, but Draco is not innocent.  I 
just don't know why JKR always throws everything except the kitchen 
sink at him.  Can't she just have Harry throw a punch on his own?


> >>Phoenixgod: 
> Untrue. IIRC, the Slytherin Quiddich team is known for dirty, 
> underhanded, and overly vicious tactics. The Gryffindors are 
> handicapped by their honor, with Harry's broom and skills making up 
> the deficit. Neither boy is the underdog in Quiddich. Harry has his 
> talent and broom and Draco has his cheating, rules breaking team.
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
You forget the twins. The biggest argument against Gryffindor being 
the "fair and honorable" house.

"A moment later, Fred Weasley chucked his Beater's club at the back 
of Flint's head.  Flint's nose smashed into the handle of his broom 
and began to bleed." (GoF hardback scholastic p.307)
[...]
"George Weasley elbowed Bole in the face in retaliation." (ibid p.309)

Both instances earned Slytherin a penalty shot.  I *will* agree that 
Slytherin is more vicious, but let's not paint the Gryffindor team as 
a bunch of sweet saints.  (And no, retalitation for penalties played 
against their fellow team-mates is no excuse in my mind.  That's the 
job of the ref, and Mdm Hooch was doing her job.)

But in the end the contest came down to Draco and Harry and Harry won 
*only* because he had the better broom.

> >>Alla:
> I think I have an aswer, even though I am not sure if you find it to
> be to your satisfaction. :-) I know that book says that Harry wins
> because of the better broom , but I think the implied reason is not
> this one.
> Here again we are going back to honorable intentions. Harry left his
> position to help his team, while Draco was concerned only about    
> glory for himself ( speculating here of course)
> I think JKR views Harry's intentions as more honorable here,       
> therefore it does seem OK ( for me at least) to imply that Harry   
> wins because his broom is better.

Betsy Hp:
I *can* actually see this as a possibility, but it doesn't really 
work for me.  (Strikes me as a bit mealymouthed.)  And I would say 
that Draco's desire for self-glory is fairly poorly portrayed.  Why 
wouldn't he want to win for his house, just as Harry wants to win for 
his?  We've seen Draco at his cocky worst in CoS.  He displays none 
of those characteristics here.  Instead Draco seems as desperate for 
a win as Oliver Wood.  For me, when Draco loses, I feel an immense 
amount of sympathy for him.  JKR describing him as unusually subdued 
after the loss only adds to it.

> >>Phoenixgod: 
> Wasn't he about to shoot Harry in the back when Moody turns him    
> into a ferret?

Betsy Hp:
Another perfect example of Draco's underdog status, IMO.  He shoots a 
hex at Harry as Harry's turning away and the hex misses.  For that 
crime Draco is turned into a ferret and thrown about the room by a 
teacher.  *Draco* gets *hit* by multi hexes thrown by the twins at 
his back, and nothing is done.  It's that sort of stuff that 
mitigates Draco's snottiness for me. 

> >>Phoenixgod
> Because I think what Rowling is trying to show is Draco's 
> pathetically poor judgement more than anything else.  I think its 
> foreshadowing many other, much more serious decisons that Draco is 
> going to make poorly.

Betsy Hp:
This could be.  Or Draco could stand as an example of the worm 
turning.  If Harry starts to underestimate Draco (as he appears to do 
at the end of OotP) and Draco *does* go evil, Draco might be able to 
visit some serious hurt on Harry because Harry doesn't recognize the 
threat.

> >>Phoenixgod: 
> I would take issue with Draco acting with a noble purpose. His 
> father is an evil terrorist, there is nothing noble in defending   
> him or what passes for Malfoy honor.

Betsy Hp:
Mmmm.  This argument doesn't work for me, especially when we've been 
shown that Draco *does* love his family.  He would have acted *more* 
dishonorably if he suddenly turned his back on his father.  It would 
suggest a certain fickleness to my mind.  No, if Draco turns on his 
family it shouldn't be an easy decision.  And it shouldn't be simply 
because his father's press has suddenly turned bad.  I'd expect a bit 
of soul searching to occur first. 

> >>Phoenixgod:
> And the reason why so many DA members leapt to Harry's defense was 
> to show just how high a regard and level of personal loyalty Harry 
> commanded. 

> >>Hells:
> I think she is showing how the tide is turning in the Wizarding     
> World. In VoldWar I the Order members were outnumbered by 20-1, now 
> the good guys have the odds in their favour. It gives me hope for  
> this war and the generations that
> will follow.

Betsy Hp:
I like both those reasons.  After Harry has felt like the entire 
school and WW has turned on him I do like that he's shown that there 
are those who are ready to stand by him.  And not just his usual 
group, either.

> >>Phoenixgod:
> Ernie relishes the look on Narcissa's face because everyone likes  
> it when bad things happen to bad people.

Betsy Hp:
Erm...  Their family has already been publically shamed and torn 
apart.  How much blood and guts does Ernie need?  This strikes me too 
much as pack behavior, which I absolutely detest.  (Though that's a 
personal bugaboo of mine, so I recognize that I may be out in left 
field here.)

Betsy Hp