FakeMoody, Snape, Legilimency, and Motives

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 132127

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "vmonte" <vmonte at y...> wrote:
> There is something that bothers me about Snape (well one of several 
> things really). He is suppose to be great at legilimency, meaning 
> that he can close his mind from others. This is an important skill 
> if he is working undercover against Voldemort or Dumbledore; but, 
> does this also mean that he is capable of reading the minds of 
> others? 
> I don't think so.

bboyminn:

Actually, Occlumency is the ability to block you mind from intrusion.
Legilimency is the ability to 'intrude' into other people's mind.

The problem is that much of fandom has made assumptions about these
things that aren't supported by the books. Many fans take them to be
one and the same, but, of course, they are not. Some fans have leap to
the conclusion that if you have one then you automatically have the
other; again, not true, not supported by the books. 

Snape has the ability to block his mind, to close it to examination by
intruders, that doesn't mean he is especially skilled at Legilimency.
In fact, in the Occlumency lessons with Harry, Snape does not use the
/skill/ of Legilimency at all, instead, he uses the Legilimens
/Spell/. That implies he probably doesn't have more than a very basic
passing ability in Legilimency, if he has any skill at all. 


> Vmonte:
> ___________________________________
> 
> GoF, pg 517, sch
> "It is Veritaserum - a Truth Potion so powerful that three drops 
> would have you spilling your innermost secrets .... watch 
> your step, you might just find that my hand slips" - he shook the 
> crystal bottle slightly _ "right over your evening pumpkin juice....
> __________________________________
> 
> Why would Snape need to use truth serum to read Harry's mind if he 
> is a great mind reader? And did he read Moody's mind during GoF? 

bboyminn:

Snape doesn't need the truth serum to probe Harry's mind, he needs it
to threaten, bully, and intimidate Harry.

A reminder again, that Snape can /block/ his mind, but we have no
evidence that he is especially gifted at Legilimency. Which should
answer your question about Fake!Moody and Snape.


> Vmonte:
>
> ...edited...
> 
> So, why is Snape always trying to get Harry expelled? Is it because 
> Snape cannot use Harry for his own purposes while Harry is still at 
> school?  
> 
> vmonte

bboyminn: 

I think Snape's efforts to get Harry expelled are not with the intent
of truly getting Harry expelled, but with the intent of bullying and
intimidating Harry. This is Snape's way of keeping Harry for getting
too full of himself, keeping him in his place. Snape knows he is able
to go to extremes in this, because he knows Dumbledore is there to
balance things off. Beside, in nearly all schools, threats of
expulsion are just that threats. Thousands of students are threatened
with expulsion, but it only happens to an extremely small number. So
for all his bluster and efforts against Harry, Snape has virtual zero
chance of getting Harry expelled. It would take an extremely extreme
act for actual expulsion to occur. It took the death of a student to
get Hargid expelled.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bboyminn