God in the WW?

[Geoff Bannister]

No: HPFGUIDX 132185


Geoff:

I think there are two angles to this question. One is JKR's real 
world approach and the other is Harry's point of view.

Jim Ferer wrote in message 132059:

"Tania, we do kind of avoid getting on religion here because it could 
start something that could rip this board apart, but I think it's 
safe to say that the wizard world seems pretty much like the Muggle 
one. How many novels do you read that mention churchgoing? A few, but 
not most. The world at large (at least the Western world) is fairly 
secular. A lot more people sing Christmas carols than go to church."

Just to repeat myself, I wrote in message 132128:

"But, again, how many books do you read which specifically mention 
churchgoing? To be flippant, someone recently remarked that we never 
saw Harry going to the bathroom – how does he stay clean? How many 
stories dwell on the hero taking a bath or going to the toilet?

Speaking seriously though as a Christian, I have commented on 
numerous occasions that you can see the presence of the writer's 
commitment even if it isn't overt. Tolkien's faith shows in the way 
in which his sub-creation works; we hear occasionally of Eru or The 
One. Similarly with JKR. We see from the way her world works, how 
right and wrong are viewed in it and. as a result, something of her 
feeling about faith."

Bamf wrote in message 132137:

"My other response is this: There are plenty of atheists and other 
people in the world that celebrate Christmas as a time of gift giving 
and peace, and do
it in a matter that has nothing to do with Christ. To those people, 
Christmas is much less a religious holiday, and more a 'state' 
holiday, or rather a civic
holiday. Everyone pretty much has grown up with it, knows what it is, 
and MOST people have the day off. (Unless of course, you were like me 
and were the only kid that celebrated Xmas in your kindergarten.) I 
have several pagan friends that celebrate Christmas, as it does fall 
in the middle of all mid-winter celebrations. To them, it's not the 
name, but the intent behind the celebration.

The flip side of that is that there are many people who say they are 
Christian that only go to mass/church/house of worship during a 
holiday season. There are plenty of Christians who do not go to 
church on Sundays."

Geoff:
(1) I think the name has great importance. We are celebrating the 
birth of Christ – that's what the word Christmas means – and if 
people are not, they should choose a different word.

(2) On your second point about Christians not going to church, it 
depends on what you mean by Christian. The former Archbishop of 
Canterbury, George Carey, said on a television on one occasion that 
we should not confuse Christianity with "Churchianity". There are 
lots of people who attend church who have not made real commitments 
to Christ. They go through the services and routines but, to them, it 
is a little bit like joining a golf club. They go along occasionally 
as the mood takes them and attend things which they like but they 
lack the integral, personal faith which is expressed by committed 
Christians. It is the sort of woolly thinking I had in my teens 
before I came to faith. This is one reason why Christianity is often 
mocked – certainly in the UK media. Many folk /claim/ that they are 
Christian; the standard joke in the UK is that if you are going into 
hospital and they ask you for your religion and you express no 
choice, you are automatically marked down as C of E!

Brian then wrote in post 132160

"On the other hand, Harry seems to have no spiritual internal
dialogue. The narrative doesn't mention him thinking about ultimate
reality. The thoughts and observations we've been privy to, so far,
have been steadfastly secular, and that's significant.

Then there's the interaction with Luna:

"Have you..." he began. "I mean, who...has anyone you've known ever
died?"

"Yes," said Luna simply,..." and so on...
a couple of lines later...
"But I've stil got Dad. And anyway, it's not as though I'll never
see Mum again, is it?"
"Er--isn't it?" said Harry uncertainly.
(863, American ed.)

Harry's reaction, to me, suggests several possibilities:
A. He's trained in a religion that doesn't emphasize an afterlife.
B. He has come to doubt a religion that does.
C. He has received little or no religious training."

Geoff:
Harry will certainly have had some religious education. It is 
mandatory in UK schools and Harry would have taken the subject in 
Little Whinging Junior School in the years up to 1991. Sadly, the 
curriculum has been broadened and children often get just a glimpse 
or taster of various faiths which leaves them with very vague and 
mixed views and, as I find in our church boys' club, a distinct 
feeling that religion is irrelevant to them. 

Looking back on my own early to mid-teens, God wasn't someone who was 
high up my list of priorities and hence things like the afterlife or 
the need for prayer etc. didn't really occur to me. I think Harry is 
in this same sort of situation.