The point of Time-Turning (was Paradox of Time Travel in PoA)

[davenclaw]

No: HPFGUIDX 132186

I think we can reach some common ground here.

First, I'm not concerned with theories of physicists or 
philosophers.  My concern is with the inconsistency between the 
rules of time-turning as JKR presents them, and the story that 
evolves.  According to the theory that everyone is presenting, the 
characters in the story have an incorrect understanding of the 
nature of time-turning.  I does not make sense to me to assume that 
JKR wrote fake rules and warnings, and that theories of physicists 
should supercede the rules and warnings that she presents to us.  
However, she may have made a mistake.

It is clear in the story that the characters THINK they are going 
back to change events. It is clear that characters believe that it 
is possible to interfere with past events and cause a paradox.  
Indeed, people in this group who claim there is only one timeline, 
ever, still contend that there is a risk of your past-self seeing 
your TT-self - but this is illogical: if your past-self saw your TT-
self, then your TT-self would already know that this happened. 
(Unless you saw yourself but didn't know, as with Harry.)  According 
to my theory, this is a risk, but according to your theory, it 
couldn't happen without you already knowing it could happen.

My theory is pretty simple: time-travelers can interact with people 
in the past timeline, and influence events.  They may instantly only 
believe that altered events are the only events that ever occurred, 
but this is not the case. JKR presents one series of events from two 
perspectives, and cleverly leads us to believe that two different 
things are happening, until we look back and realize that the 
altered events are what we witnessed in the first place.

The paradox in my theory is that if Harry had to change the original 
events, he wouldn't have a memory of seeing himself cast a Patronus 
until he did it.  This can be resolved by asserting that we are 
seeing Harry time-travel into the past that had already been 
altered, and that the FIRST time he time-traveled, he cast the 
Patronus on his own rather than with the memory of seeing himself do 
it.

I don't really think JKR had this in mind, though. I don't much like 
the "loop" idea but if you throw out the loop idea, then you have 
McGonnagal telling lies to Hermione - or, simply, JKR making a 
mistake.

I really think we have to conclude that JKR didn't quite think 
through the consequences in complete detail.  If we assume that she 
intended the events of the story to be the one-and-only timeline of 
events, then the risks of time-travel were basically a mistake. It 
also means that everyone is wrong to assert that there is a risk of 
your past-self seeing your TT-self without your TT-self already 
knowing that it happened.

However, if we assume that the risks are real, then she is leaving 
something out by only showing us events as they were ultimately 
altered.  Which she is free to do, however, I suspect that in her 
mind, time-turning works as most of the people in the group have 
asserted.

So, in the end, I guess this is just a nitpick: JKR presents us with 
a concept of time-travel that conflicts with her characters' 
understanding of time-travel.  I am in the "JKR screwed up" camp, 
rather than the "McGonnagal lied to Hermione" camp.

- davenclaw