[HPforGrownups] Re: The point of Time-Turning (was Paradox of Time Travel in PoA)

[heather the buzzard]

No: HPFGUIDX 132194

Davenclaw wrote:

>"So, in the end, I guess this is just a nitpick: JKR presents us with
>a concept of time-travel that conflicts with her characters'
>understanding of time-travel.  I am in the "JKR screwed up" camp,
>rather than the "McGonnagal lied to Hermione" camp."
>  
>
Del replied:

>Maybe there could be a third camp: "some of the characters REALLY
>don't understand how Time-Turning works". We know that Hermione didn't
>understand when Harry explained to her how seeing himself cast the
>Patronus gave him the little edge he needed to succeed at casting a
>real Patronus. So it *could* be that she *really* doesn't understand
>how Time-Turning works. As for McGonagall, we don't know whether she
>has any experience with it,and whether she understands its principle
>at all. If she doesn't understand it, then maybe all her warnings
>about wizards killing their past or future selves are just "wizard
>legends" (as in urban legends), things she's heard about but that are
>not true.
>

heather adds:

And maybe, there are different types of magical time devices that will 
do different things.  Perhaps a time-turner is used to get 'more time' 
for an individual out of the same timeline, and other devices could be 
used to actually change the past.

Of course I'm in the camp that believes the latter is logically 
impossible, but I'm open to the notion of it being used in fiction.  :)  
I definitely think the former, the time-only-happens-once idea is indeed 
what was happening in PoA, and I'm glad that Davenclaw agrees with that 
much, at least.  :) 

However, given the nature of the experiments in the DoM... with the baby 
and the bird being examples of things growing backwards through their 
own individual timeframe WHILE MOVING FORWARD in 'actual' time, leads to 
the possibility within the *magic* world that there are ways of 
circumventing 'normal' time logic (such as it is) and that a wizard 
could, possibly, kill his past self with HORRID repercussions to the 
space-time continuum.  This sort of device would probably now be 
completely outlawed...

I prefer the idea that this is an urban legend, designed to scare 
wizards from trying to 'tamper with time' too much -- despite the 
apparent 'safety' of the time-turner because "you would know if you had 
done it", it's still possible for it to be used for evil.  You *could* 
go back in time to kill someone ELSE, for instance (whether or not you 
were aware that you had "already" done it).  Perhaps they're just too 
far away for you to get to them in time when you know they're 
vulnerable, so you time-turn so you can get there quickly enough and do 
the deed. 

Also, even the greatest wizards might have a hard time understanding 
time travel.  As proven by the discussions here, it's a horrifically 
complicated thing to even THINK about, much less TALK INTELLIGENTLY 
about lol... wizards might have discovered ways to play with time, and 
just be able to say "well I know we CAN do it, but I can't explain WHY 
or HOW".  If they're not exactly sure WHAT is happening, it's best not 
to push the envelope, to tempt fate, etc. 

Whether or not the urban legends are deliberately 'planted' or just 
evolved out of misunderstandings (as most urban legends do, taking a 
near-truth and exaggerating and distorting it) is almost irrelevant, if 
that's what they are.  I like the idea of McGonagle either deliberately 
or superstitiously passing on these legends to Hermione, who of course 
believes it because a professor said so.  :)

As for Hermione researching it... I would guess that it's something so 
secret, so carefully guarded, that it's not much published about, so she 
wouldn't find much anyway.

Anyway... summation:  I prefer the urban legends theory, but I'm open to 
the idea that different devices can tamper with Time in different ways. 

Can I use this as a chance to express one of my favourite little moments 
in the PoA movie?  When Hermione wraps the TT around herself and Harry, 
and he goes to have a look at it, and she (rather parentally) slaps his 
hand away without even looking up.... Has me LOL every single time.  
Great little character moment.  Heh.

heather the buzzard