GoF: The Age Line

[jlv230]

No: HPFGUIDX 132426


> karenabarker:
> Goblet of Fire - UK paperback - page 243 - 'The Four Champions'
>
> "Did you ask an older student to put it [Harry's name] into the
Goblet
> of Fire for you?" said Professor Dumbledore, ignoring Snape,
> "No" said Harry vehemently.
>
> Sherrie:
> That just shows that Harry didn't WILLINGLY have his name put in -
it
> doesn't say that someone (e.g., that 17-year-old Slytherin) didn't
put Harry's name
> in without his knowledge or consent.
>
> > Geoff:
> > But aren't you forgetting something?
> > "Who put your name in the Goblet of Fire under the name of a 
> > different school? I did."'
>
> davenclaw:
> I know that Moody/Crouch Jr. threw his name in.

JLV:
I don't think Geoff was disputing that ;-) I thought he was 
responding to an ambiguity in the wording of Sherrie's comment.

> davenclaw:
> But everyone is 
> running around worried about who might have wanted to put Harry in 
> danger, and speculating about Karkaroff and death eaters and 
> Voldemort and so on, when no one says "anyone of age could have put 
> it in" and interrogated all the 17 yr olds in the school with 
> veritaserum.
>
> heather:
> I think you have a very good point here. 
> 
> I'm going to fanwank that the Goblet normally 'recognizes' if the 
person 
> submitting a name is the same person named on the paper.  If it 
were as 
> simple as just getting an older student to put your name in, then 
yeah 
> the Weasley twins (and others) would certainly have just got older 
> students to put their names in.
> 
> So either the Goblet (heh, I originally mistyped "Boglet" and just 
found 
> that really amusing) recognizes the identity of the person, or 
perhaps 
> it doesn't allow the same person to submit a name twice (so no 
> 17-year-olds were available to put in younger kids' names since 
they 
> wanted to put their own in).  If the former, then presumably whilst 
Moody 
> was tricking the Goblet into accepting a 'fourth school' he was 
also 
> tricking it into thinking he was the person named on his submission 
> (heck, he knows about Polyjuice potion, maybe he even WAS Harry).  
If 
> the latter, then all Moody had to do was trick it about the school, 
as 
> he said.
> 
JLV:
I agree with both you guys. It /is/ very odd that it isn't mentioned 
but it may be just one of those things that happened and were 'missed 
out' of the book - like Harry nipping back into Moody's office to 
steal back the Marauder's map.

One can only assume that JKR just 'forgot' to cover this ground - she 
could have made up a million reasons. I had a different idea to 
Heather (but hers is excellent!), so take your pick (I hope mine 
makes sense):

I believe the reason is something along the lines of 'the complexity 
of the charm needed to confund the cup into forgetting that there 
were only three schools tells us that only a very powerful wizard 
could have done it'. I don't have my book here... but I'm sure that 
someone says something along these lines (but I'm not sure when!) If, 
indeed, Dumbledore could tell that the magic needed would be too hard 
for any of his students that could explain the lack of discussion on 
the subject. However, it seems odd that he would ask Harry if he got 
an older student to do it if this were the case... But it could be 
that Harry was asked that question more for show (in front of the 
other headteachers) than actually as a question. I reckon Dumbledore 
knew exactly what he was dealing with
 and it was no simple prank


As for the veritaserum, JKR warned on her website that it shouldn't 
be seen as a magical solution to all law enforcement issues. She is 
keen to show that things aren't always any easier with magic.

> davenclaw:
> But regardless, my further point is that it's a very weak spot in 
> the story - you have this Goblet, which doesn't care how old the 
> students are, you have the schools agreeing on an age limit, 
> Dumbledore puts in an age line preventing underagers from putting 
> their names in, but NOTHING to prevent an of-ager from putting 
> ANYONE's name in 

JLV:
I also wondered why the twins didn't ask an older student to put 
their name in, but perhaps they did and were turned down (because 
they supported Angelina or didn't want to get in trouble 
themselves)... JKR never said it didn't happen nor did she say it 
did... Obviously Heather's idea covers this problem too, so is much 
better in this respect XD

I just wanted to say that I too find the plot of GoF a little holey - 
there are elements that could add up but don't quite. I'm sure that 
people have asked this before but I'm still not sure why it was 
necessary for Harry to win the Triwizard tournament to get him 
transported to the graveyard in the summer. I am hoping the reason is 
something like the Triwizard Cup is the only authorised portkey 
allowed in Hogwarts, and any others would set off Dumbledore's magic 
security. (Dumbledore himself is, of course, allowed to make as many 
portkeys as he likes as he is the one making the rules!) 

JLV xx
Roll on Saturday!