Neville, Seamus, and the Sorting Hat

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 132513

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "gelite67" <gelite67 at y...> wrote:
> In PS, the Sorting Hat took "a long time" to decide which house to 
> put Neville in.  I'm curious as to which other house or houses the
> SH was considering putting Neville in.  ...
> 
> ... my guess is that the other house would be Hufflepuff House, 
> ...
>
> ...edited...
> 
> The same question could also be asked regarding Seamus, since JKR 
> made it a point to explain that the SH took a whole minute before it 
> sorted him into Gryffindor.   
> 
> Angie

bboyminn:

I've always assumed that Neville's sorting went something like
Harry's, except while Harry argued against Slytherin, Neville argued
against Gryffindor. The Sorting Hat suggested Gryffindor, and Neville
said, no I can't be Gryffindor, I'm sure I must be a Hufflepuff. The
Sorting Hat insisted on Gryffindor, but Neville asserted that he
wasn't brave at all and therefore couldn't possibly be Gryffindor, and
so on. Finally, the Sorting Hat emphatically told Neville he WAS brave
and he would be in Gryffindor.

Just one small problem, if Neville was 100% absolutely Gryffindor, the
Sorting Hat wouldn't have waited for Neville's input, it would have
just shouted out "Gryffindor!" and that would have been it. So, I do
suspect that Neville does have some Hufflepuff qualities. Just as with
Harry, the Sorting Hat was thinking out loud (in a manner of
speaking), and when Neville heard what the Hat was saying, he disputed
Gryffindor they way Harry disputed Slytherin.

Seamus is another story. I've always suspected a trace of Slytherin in
him, but mostly thought that was just my suspecious nature. Seamus
doesn't seem exceptionally bright, nor does he seem especially hard
working or loyal, but he's doesn't seem all that cunning or ambitious
either. 

The problem is, we see his outward actions, not his internal
character. Neither Harry nor Neville fancied themselves as especially
brave, and while I'm sure they welcomed the opportunty to be a
Gryffindor, I'm convinced neither felt worthy to be there.

Time for some quotes-

--- Sorcerer's Stone - Am Ed - PB - Pg149---
Sometimes, Harry noticed, the hat shouted out the house at once, but
at others it took a little while to decide. "Finnegan, Seamus," the
sandy-haired boy next to Harry in the line, sat on the stool for
almost a whole minute before the hat declared him a Gryffidnor.
- - - end quote - - -

A minute is really quite along time under the circumstances, and it
seems odd that Harry would take Seamus's sorting as the point to note
that some sortings took longer than others. I've suspected something
was up, but can't imagine what.


--- Sorcerer's Stone - Am Ed - PB - Pg150---
...Neville Longbottom... The hat took a long time to decide with
Neville. When it finally shouted, "Gryffindor,"
- - - end quote - - -



This open the opportunity for me to make a general comment on the
nature of the Sorting Hat. Others have speculated that the Sorting Hat
 gives great weight to what the student wants, or what the student
asks for. Of course, I will immediately point out that Harry never
asked for Gryffindor, he simply said 'not Slytherin'. 

I simply can't believe that the Sorting Hat would use such superficial
criteria to select a student's house. How could an 11 year old
possibly know his true self or his true nature? The Sorting Hat would
have to be quite pathetic to let students choose their own house. I
believe the Sorting Hat looks very deep into a student, looks down to
their core essences and makes a selection based on things so deep that
the student most likely doesn't even know of that aspect of himself. 

Like Neville; he would never have considered himself as brave, yet we
have seen him do some very brave things, and I will note that in the
Department of Mysteries, Neville was the last man standing with Harry,
and he charged forward into the thick of things and did his best even
while he knew he was significantly disadvantaged. Neville could have
never seen that in himself at his Sorting, but it is clear that
potential was there.

However, I suspect that the Sorting Hat does learn things from
students by engaging them in a dialog. I don't think the Sorting Hat
intended to put Harry in Slytherin, but once Harry brought the subject
up, the Sorting Hat tested him, it probe his reaction, listened to his
arguements. In a sense, the Hat kept pressing the idea of Slytherin to
force a reaction from Harry, and that reaction did tell the Hat
something about Harry's nature. 

In Hermione's case, there may have been a similar dialog in which
Hermione favored Gryffindor, in the Hat's probing of Hermione's deeper
essence it saw she had tremendous intellect, and that she was hard
working and loyal, and she does have her share of cunning and
ambition. In her case, I suspect the Hat tempted her with Ravenclaw,
again, as with Harry, it did so to test her reaction and response.
That dialog does tell the Hat something about Hermione, it does give
the Hat insight. But in the end, it put Hermione in Gryffindor, not
because she asked for it, but because that Hat saw that in bravery and
courage is where he true nature lay.

In the end, I really just can't see the Sorting Hat as being so
superficial and shallow as to let a students wishes or desires be the
critical factor in the final decision. No kid could really see or
understand himself as well or as deeply as the Sorting Hat can, and I
think ultimately, it makes its decision based on those deeper core
character aspects.

One final note, just because you have a particular characteristic
does't mean that characteristic will be realized. Seamus, for example,
deep down may be very brave and courageous, but it's possible that
life will never give him the opportunity to realize that bravery.
While Harry and Ron are out chasing monsters and demons, Seamus is
tucked away warm and cozy in his bed. He doesn't get the chances to
assert his brave character the way Ron and Harry do. So, regardless of
your core essence of House character, life may unfold in a way that
prevents you from ever realizing or utilizing that potential.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bboyminn