[HPforGrownups] Re: OOTP observations: Molly (and a bit on Percy, DD, etc.)

[fuzzlebub85 at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 132743

 
Kaylee Tonks-Lupin here, joining in this discussion in between having a  pina 
colada or two at the Royal George:

> Del replies:
> Molly is the epitome of the protective  mother. Asking her NOT to 
care
> for any parent-less kid around her is  illogical IMO.

Phoenixgod said: I get that, but there is a difference  between caring for 
Harry and 
the irrational degree of guardianship she  seemed to think she was 
entitled to.


Now me, Kaylee: Yes, I agree with Phoenixgod. There is a difference. (I  know 
this from experience...my father's girlfriend was a Molly...grr, I hated  
that.) Although I understand Del's point too, and asking her not to care for any  
parentless child *is* illogical...though I believe her methods are a little 
off.  Look at the way she treats her own children!!

> And personally, if I was Harry or Hermione's mother, I'd be VERY  
GLAD
> that there is *someone* mothering my kid. I would NOT be happy  if I
> let my teenage kid go to some place under some adult's  supervision,
> and I learned that s/he had been allowed to, say, watch a  porn 
movie,
> and when I ask why this is so to that supposedly  responsible 
adult, I
> get told "well, s/he's not *my* kid, is s/he?"  That would peeve me 
off
> *greatly* 

Kaylee: <snips  Phoenixgod's excellent points about Molly = control freak and 
Del's examples  definitely being illegal>
 
Yes, Del, I see what you mean. That's definitely true in my book too. (I'm  
still single and without children, but hypothetically, if I had kids...) 
Anyway,  it would be a very irresponsible adult who would let something like that 
(the  porn, fires, etc.) occur...


> Del replies:
> Well, I have  been told several times that obedience to DD *is* the
> standard of  goodness in the Potterverse.

Phoenixgod: I'm cheesed off at Dumbledore  after OOTP so I am not one of 
those people.


Kaylee now: I believe I differ here with you both, actually. Obedience to  DD 
isn't *necessarily* the standard of goodness...after all, Sirius didn't  
exactly obey DD, did he? But he was "good". He did his best to protect Harry.  
(I'm fairly sure I'm starting to go OT...crud...) However, I'm more likely to  
say if *obedience to DD* isn't the standard, at least *alliance with DD* is.  
Those who side with Fudge and not DD seem to be in the wrong. Think Percy. 
 
Kaylee continues, answering Phoenixgod: As for being cheesed off at  DD...I'm 
not. I'm a *tiny* bit annoyed that he ignored Harry all year,  naturally, but 
I understood his reasoning...as he himself called it, "an old  man's 
mistake". DD *is* old. He is not perfect, he is human, and Harry is just  starting to 
learn this now, it seems. (As a side note, I'm not cheesed off at  
CAPSLOCK!Harry either, but that's another thread.)

> 
> Del  said: As for the jealousy, I find it totally understandable. Molly has 
 
been
> inviting Harry into her family for several years now. She has  
showered
> him with affection and attention. The Burrow is the only  place 
apart
> from Hogwarts where Harry has ever been happy. So it is  totally
> understandable to me that Molly would feel a bit possessive of  
Harry,
> and consequently a bit jealous that Harry loves Sirius so  obviously
> more than her.


Kaylee here: Hmm. I took it a little differently. Sure, she's jealous that  
Harry cares for Sirius more than her, but I think it's more than that. She's  
only known for a couple years now (if even that long...correct me, did she find 
 out in/after POA or GoF? Please, I need canon, my books are MIA except for 
Order  of the Phoenix, which of course I am rereading as fast as possible) I 
think she  still can't let go of the belief that Sirius is guilty. She feels 
protective of  Harry since he's being around a man who escaped *Azkaban Prison* 
of all places.  She doesn't trust Sirius. I agree that she's jealous, but I 
think that she also  feels Sirius is untrustworthy, and that's her *reasoning*.

Phoenixgod said: Then she is being irrational and should be called on  it. 
Sirius is 
Harry's *Godfather*.  Best friends with Harry's parents.  Keeper of a 
lot of Harry's past.  Probably there when the kid was  born.  If she 
is really that resentful of the bond between Harry and  Sirius she is 
truly a reprehensible person.
 
All true...except we differ on the last line, Phoenixgod. I don't find  Molly 
"reprehensible" for not trusting Sirius. (Perhaps I might be slightly  
influenced by the fact that my uncle, my mother's brother-in-law, wasn't trusted  by 
my mother's family for similar reasons. But I digress.) I find Molly  
*insecure* in her position in Harry's life. Before the end of PoA, ever since  she 
first met Harry she's been his parental figure. With Sirius being so  involved 
in Harry's life over the course of GoF, she began to feel left out. In  OotP, 
she was even stuck in the same house as her "rival", even a house that  
*belonged* to him, and couldn't stand the pressure.

> Del  replies:
> That would be totally unfair IMO!! Molly did SO MUCH for Harry,  and
> any hurt she caused him was borne out of love and concern for  him!

Phoenixgod says: That makes it alright?  The worst things I  have ever seen a 
parent 
do to a child were done out of misguided love.
 
Kaylee here: *blinks* Actually, though it's hard to explain, I believe  
you're BOTH right...am I making sense? I can't clarify right now, have to think  it 
over...

> Del: (Unlike some of the hurt Sirius caused Harry, by the  way...) Molly
> freely showered Harry with good things and good feelings,  so why on
> Earth should she be punished???

I don't think I said  punished. I just think she should be called on 
it. Throw those remarks of  her back into her face and force her to 
think about what she says instead of  just turing as red as her hair 
and spouting off.


Kaylee here: Hmm. Well, as long as you DIDN'T say "punished,"  
Phoenixgod...Yes, I believe Molly ought to think before she speaks. But *can*  she? Is this 
a "normal" state of mind for Molly Weasley? Something to think  about...what 
someone "should" do vs. what they *can.* IOW, I believe Molly's  highly 
unlikely to think before she speaks, because that's just not "her" way,  IMHO. Unless 
you can provide suitable canon to prove me wrong...and I'd be  delighted if 
you could, Phoenixgod (or anyone else), because I *would* like  Molly to 
change...

<Kaylee snips Del's response, basically "Molly should say what she  thinks 
and people have to have a reason why they don't like it">

Phoenixgod: So she is right to bully her husband? She was right to  forget 
about 
the Twins when she was happy that Ron had become a prefect? so  she 
was right to try and crush the dreams of the twins when they don't  
fit into her version of what they should do?  Molly has the right to  
raise her kids they way she wants but she goes out of her way to  
belittle ideas and dreams they have that are not hers.
 
Kaylee now: Well, Phoenixgod, I have to say you've hit the nail on the  head. 
It's one of the things I *don't* understand about Molly...why she  belittles 
her children about not being the way she wants to be...except  
that...*dryly*...my own mother is the same way. I just figured all mothers were  like that. 
(I still don't understand it, I just have a similar mother!) IMO,  Molly's not 
being fair. But what can the Weasley kids do? Or Arthur, for that  matter?
> 
> Del: A mother does NOT stop being a mother when her  kids hit puberty or
> something. Molly is the mother, and she will always  be the mother, 
and
> as long as her kids depend on her for their  living, then she is
> entitled to say her mind.
 
True enough. My mother would agree completely. However, with the "as long  as 
her kids depend on her for their living", then I have a little bit of a  
problem with that, Del. Mind you, I don't have GoF right here, but I believe the  
quote goes something like this...
 
*Molly asks Bill to let her trim his hair and scolds him about the dragon  
fang earring* "Really, Bill, what do they say at the bank?" "Mum, no one gives a 
 damn how I dress as long as I bring home plenty of treasure..." And then 
doesn't  Ginny stick up for Bill, pointing out that his hair's not longer than  
Dumbledore's and she likes it? So since Bill is grown up, should Molly have the 
 right to say these things? Apparently not. But she does.

Phoenixgod  again: Yes she does, but saying her mind does not give her the 
right to  
treat the twins they way she does. Or treat Arthur the way she does. 
Or  try to infantalize Harry the way she tries to do. Being a good 
parent is  about supporting your kids and giving them the tools to 
fufill their dreams,  not yours.  Something tells me that Molly isn't 
all that good at that  part of the job.
 
Kaylee here: Yes, Phoenixgod, exactly what I was thinking. But I wouldn't  
say Molly's not a "good" mother. She may not be the "best", just like mine isn't 
 the "best", but, after all, she DID raise seven children, and, per JKR,  
homeschool them all before Hogwarts. She must be good for *something*.  <bg>. 
Just my two Knuts.

phoenixgod2000




All JMHO as usual,
 
Kaylee Tonks-Lupin


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