HBP thoughts, what else?

[Amy Z]

No: HPFGUIDX 132976

*Amy hobbles in, waves cane vaguely at all these young'uns, 
especially lupinlore*

Hi all--I'm an oldtimer (very active on the list December 2000 to, I 
don't know, late 2001, and list elf/moderator in 2001-02-03).  Since 
40 more posts have appeared since I started writing this one, this 
may be my last appearance in a while as well as my first.  I don't 
like posting when I can't know whether I'm repeating what others have 
just said.  I'll do my bit to contribute to the list, though, and 
also go the Mods one better by promising to post no more than ONCE a 
day. 

Dysis wrote in message 132912:

>assisted suicide

I'm leaning heavily toward the Dumbledore-wanted-(ORDERED)-Snape-to-
kill-him theories, but I'm not sure I'd call it assisted suicide.  
That implies that Dumbledore couldn't die on his own, and I don't 
believe it.  Even a Muggle standing at the top of a tower can throw 
himself off it if death is all he seeks; surely the greatest wizard 
of the age has even more (and perhaps less painful) means at his 
disposal: if not Avada Kedavra, then a suicidal version.

If he wanted Snape to kill him, it seems to me that it is because 
*Snape* has to kill him, for reasons we have yet to learn.  Or he has 
to be killed by *someone*, a la Aslan's "Deeper Magic" in The Lion, 
the Witch, and the Wardrobe, though I never found the sacrificial 
death idea very convincing there either.  But then, JKR is a 
Christian, has said that the events of the last two books shouldn't 
surprise anyone who knows the Christian story, and may well view 
Draco as the Judas who, like Edmund in LWW, must be redeemed.  It 
seems like rather a big sacrifice just for Draco though.  There has 
to be more going on.  Anyway, the dynamic in LWW is different: the 
killers there are very willing, which if the "please" means "please 
kill me," Snape was not.



Alla (Dumbledore 11214) wrote in message 132918:

>I am also ready to bet many galleons right now, that if we ever to
>see Pensieve scene again, some things were would look REALLY
>different. I don't know which exactly would be different, but I
>am pretty positive that something would be. We do have an idea that
>person's memory CAN be modified by that very person. I am also
>not put off by the fact that Slughorn's memory had thick fog in it
>and that is why how Dumbledore figured it out. After all, Albus said
that it was "crudely done" and that implies to me that Snape
could
do much better job with modifying his memories than Slughorn did. He
is a genius after all.

Ooh, I like–you're right, this sounds like something that will arise 
again.  We may well see a Pensieve scene unmasked.  I doubt this tool 
will be expended on something as trivial as making MWPP look nicer 
than they did in OP, personally, but then, I don't much care.  James 
and Sirius were real jerks when they were 15 (and my beloved Remus 
committed the same sin by omission). Ouch, but Harry seems to have 
dealt with his heroes' being imperfect and I will strive bravely to 
do the same.  I was kind of a jerk as a teenager too and now I like 
me. ;-)

But oh, the possibilities in our magical flashback-generator 
containing lies!  I love!

Alla also wrote:

>I am still looking for that mysterious being called "good
>Slytherin" to emerge among Hogwarts students, because I certainly 
did not see
>any.

Did she say it would be a student?  I assumed she meant Slughorn–and, 
if Snape isn't a baddie, is also teasing us about Snape.  Slughorn 
certainly complexified the Slytherin picture nicely for me.  
Slytherins are supposed to be ambitious, right?  Here's that 
characteristic showing up, not in bloodthirsty ruthlessness, but in 
namedropping and social climbing.  I love.  And while we don't know 
him too well, it seems that Slughorn is supposed to be on the right 
side, for all that he's irritating and a bit cowardly.  I really felt 
for him.  Don't we all censor the memories we're most ashamed of?  
And his regret was so palpable, thanks to JKR's showing how the 
damage he might have done on the grand scale of the first war hit 
home for him, in that his naivete and encouragement of Tom Riddle 
might have caused the murder of one of his favorite students (Lily).

Brothergib wrote in 132920:

>I have wondered if the 'look of triumph' in Dumbledore's eyes, is the
>fact that Voldemort had taken part of his soul back from Harry when
>he reincarnated. Perhaps this release Harry from the need to die to
>defeat Voldemort.

Ah!  This is the neatest post-Horcrux-revelations gleam theory I've 
seen yet.  Very nice.

OK, here's my thought, which I haven't seen yet but apologies if I 
missed it.

Two things in "Spinner's End" make me think Snape is lying through 
his teeth to Bellatrix and by extension to all the DEs and 
Voldemort.  For the most part, he offers a very good explanation of 
the things he's done in the series so far: why he didn't come to 
Voldemort's aid in getting the Stone (in fact thwarted him), etc.  
But two sections don't ring true:

(1) All that stuff about why Dumbledore isn't on to him.  It all 
boils down to, in Sirius's words, "He's a trusting man."  Bullhooey.  
Dumbledore has an "ironclad" reason to trust Snape.  We don't know 
what it is, and no doubt will come up with 500 more theories by the 
time Book 7 arrives.  No one seems to know what it is, which is going 
to make it very difficult for Snape to keep his skin on, though face 
it, the Order hasn't exactly been impressingly effective so far so 
maybe they'll fail to track him down and kill him too.  But anyway, 
even Bellatrix, who doesn't want to believe that Dumbledore is truly 
a great wizard, is suspicious about how easy he is to fool.  The 
obvious conclusion is that he isn't easy to fool, even by a great 
Occlumens like Snape.  He knows exactly what is going on with Snape 
and it's okay by him.

(2) Snape's description of Harry as thoroughly mediocre.  I believe 
he truly hates Harry, thinks he's overrated, etc., but come on.  He 
has watched this kid come into his own; he knows he defeated the Dark 
Lord repeatedly now, and has heard the details; does he really 
believe it's dumb luck?  Doesn't he hear about Harry's 
accomplishments in DADA?  For all Harry hasn't shone in Snape's own 
classes, he's not even that bad at Potions–he got an E.  So why is 
Snape dismissing his abilities, if not to bolster the unbelievable 
idea that Harry isn't worth killing?

Both of these weak arguments of Snape's reinforce the idea that he's 
a double (? I lose track) agent whose true loyalty is to Dumbledore 
and the Order.

What say you all?

Amy Z Curmudgeon
(Curmudgeon by marriage, not by personality . . . most of the time)