The Potions Book: Is Snape *really* the HBP?

[AyanEva]

No: HPFGUIDX 133954

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "clio44a" <clio44a at y...> wrote:
> > Brief Chronicles now:
>SNIP> 
> All in all I am quite dissappointed about that whole HBP business.
> Throughout the book we have that subplot about the mysterious 
Prince,
> and in the end it turns out to be simply a childish pun on Snape's
> mother's maiden name. So? Was that significant enough to name that
> whole book after the HBP and base the whole promotion campaign on 
the
>   question "Who is the half-blood prince?"    
> 
> 
> Clio, 


I'm going to take a risk and post the following etymological "study" 
in this thread. Since we're talking about names and all that good 
stuff. And I'm sick of trying to hunt down what thread this oughta go 
into. I don't think anyone's posted this yet; I did search, but I 
might've missed it.

Ok, I posted this just a little while ago on Diagon Ally (yup, I'm 
still trying to post on two sites at once). It kind of ties into 
exactly what you've just said, which is good because I was hesitant 
to start a whole new thread or something. I had a thought about the 
relationship between the etymology of Severus Snape's name, his 
mother's name (maiden and married), and his father's name. Urrrgh. 
This is a little long and slightly convoluted, hopefully everyone can 
follow it. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any of the 
conclusions that I've managed to come up with; I did this mostly 
because I'm a student who has way too much time on her hands. It was 
fun, at any rate.

I've been trying to find any meaning behind the surname of "Prince."  
Since we're over-analyzing everything else, I figure why not the 
name? Since many of the names in HP seem to represent different 
characteristics of the person who bears the name... This goes all 
over the place, so bear with me and please offer any ideas. Keep in 
mind, I'm not actually saying that I think any of this is right...but 
it is interesting.

>From http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=p&p=30 under the listing 
for "Prince." I'm almost certain the html [quote][/quote] tags don't 
show up here, but I'll leave them so that you know it's a quote from 
a specific source. I don't think it messes up formatting...does it? 
*crosses fingers* At least I pulled out all of the other tags during 
editing.

[quote]c.1225, from O.Fr. prince (12c.), from L. princeps (gen. 
principis) "first, chief, prince," lit. "that takes first" (adj.), 
from primus "first" (see prime (adj.)) + root of capere "to take" 
(see capable). Ger. cognate fürst, from O.H.G. furist "first," is 
apparently an imitation of the Latin form. Colloquial 
meaning "admirable or generous person" is from 1911, Amer.Eng.
[/quote] 

Anything? I'm not clever enough to pick up on these things. There has 
to be a clue to Snape in the "Half-blood prince" title, though. More 
so than just that it's his mother's last name...I'd like to think so 
anyway. First of all, Harry compares Snape to Lord Whatchamagig by 
saying, and I'm paraphrasing here, that Snape was also ashamed of his 
parentage and wanted to adopt a title to make himself seem more 
grandiose. I certainly think Harry is wrong in this. In fact, Snape 
seemed quite proud that he was a "half-blood Prince." If you're 
really aiming to make people think that you're Pure Blood, why adopt 
a title with the phrase "Half-blood" in it? The name Prince *must* be 
important. I'm thinking that, as with some of the names of 
other HP characters, the clue to this importance might be found in 
the actual name. It could be the obvious meaning of the name "Prince" 
or something else more obsure. I'm looking for the "something else 
more obsure" at the moment. 

Furthermore, is his rank within Voldie's circle the only reason that 
the other DE's listen to him without question? Or is there something 
else having to do with his geneology? I mean, Lord Doohicky has the 
Salazar Slytherin heir thing going on and that's why people listened 
to him from the get-go. Was Snape's adoption of the Half-blood Prince 
title meant to draw attention to his geneology so that people 
wouldn't question him? Anyway, on we go.

>From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_(disambiguation).

Prince (from the Latin Princeps) can mean:

[quote]...certains member of an elite or ruling class, notably 
certain rulers, members of reigning dynasties ('prines of the blood') 
and social equivalents (notably various Princes of the Church); see 
Prince[/quote] 

The "princes of the blood" bit has me interested. Anything here? 
Probably not.

This is from Merriam-Webster, 4th definition:

[quote]4 : one likened to a prince; especially : a man of high rank 
or of high standing in his class or profession
- prince·ship  /'prin(t)s-"ship/ noun[/quote]

Could it be as simple as a double meaning between Snape's skill at DA 
and Potions and his mother's last name? Could be, but why stop the 
fun right here!?

Now, his mother's first name. Eileen, wasn't it?

>From http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?
search=Helen&searchmode=none

A version of the name Helen. I find it interesting that Helen of 
Troy, from whom the name mostly comes was the cause of a war. Or at 
least involved in a huge war. But that aside...


We've got two main choices for the Irish Eileen here. Even though, it 
says that Eileen, at some point, became a translation for the Roman 
Helen. 

http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/eng5.html

In Irish etymology, Eileen means Bird or Rival, depending. The 
Roman "Helen" means Torch.

I find it interesting that Helen of Troy, from whom the name mostly 
comes was the cause of a war. Or at least involved in a huge war.

Soooo, we've got Bird, Rival, and Torch/Bright One for Eileen. For 
Prince we have "see above." So if we go with the Merriam-Webster 
definition number 4 we can figure that Eileen was the best in her 
class/profession at being a Rival, a bird, or a torch/bright person. 
I'm goin' for Rival or Bright One here because Bird doesn't make much 
sense. Rival to whom? She was in the same year as Tom Riddle. 
Waaahhhh! I can't make any sense of this!!! That Bright One 
has to mean something...she was the best and that's where Snape got 
his skills? She married a muggle so she must not have been all that 
hung up on pureblood nonsense. But perhaps that led to her downfall, 
keep reading further down. Eileen a juxtaposition to Tom Riddle? I 
mean, we have Harry/Draco, The Marauders/Snape, Riddle/???. Three 
major periods and the earliest period has no counter. Where's the 
protagonist? 

*drifts completely off topic to gripe and get in a cheap shot* 

Although, I think The Marauders were the antagonists and Snape was 
the protagonist. I'm sorry, James and Sirius were, from all 
appearances, total butts. I would've been the one that people like 
them picked on. So not cool. *waves Snapeophile flag* 

*back on point now* 

Now, Snape's father...http://www.behindthename.com/php/view.php?
name=tobias. The Tobias thing isn't really all that helpful at first.

Any other definition of Tobias says about the same thing. Why does it 
seem that the first names of Snape's parents are exactly the opposite 
of the person who bears the name. I mean, Bright One, taken to mean 
beautiful like the Roman Helen and the other Helen derivatives in 
Irish mythology (King Arthur), is exactly the opposite of what Eileen 
Prince was, physically at least. She was described as...ahem...well, 
she wasn't all that pretty. Now, if we take into account mental 
abilities...what club was she president of? I keep getting the 
feeling that she was smart and that's where Snape gets his brains 
from. 

And Tobias, if we figure that he's the guy in Snape's memory from 
OOTP screaming at him(?) and his mother(?), isn't really all that 
righteous or godly. He seems like a bit of an arse to me. Which is 
interesting because Severus Snape's name says *exactly* what he 
is, one way or the other. In fact, depending on which definition of 
his last name you choose, his name seems to describe *both* 
schools of thought (good, but not nice versus just plain bad) 
describing his nature and purpose in the HP books. Does this mean 
something? Bear with me just a little longer).

I can't remember what site it is that has all of the names, but here:

Snape, according to the http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?
l=s&p=29, means,

[quote]"to be hard upon, rebuke, snub," c.1300, from O.N. sneypa "to 
outrage, dishonor, disgrace."[/quote]

But Tobias, from 
http://www.sacklunch.net/personalnames/T/TobiasorToby.html, means

[quote]Tobias or Toby: From the Hebrew tobh-mah, which has been 
variously rendered "God's goodness" and "distinguished of the 
Lord."[/quote] 

*squinches eyes shut in pain* *sigh* As much as it pains me to 
consider the religious parallels in HP... I know some say that there  
are some, though I don't see it that way; but let's not rehash. The 
point is, I'm forced to offer this particular piece of information 
because it is, in fact, fact. So, without getting hung up on 
another "religion in HP" discussion, all I can get from the Tobias 
Snape name are two possibilities: 

1) Someone who dishonored/disgraced his standing in the eyes of the 
lord, in a literal sense, or someone who was devout/upstanding in the 
community and casting a very unfair and harsh judgement on someone 
else. Or, more unlikely, Tobias was harshly judged. But hey, could be!

2) The meaning of the name Tobias and Tobias Snape's presumed 
behavior are just a sad irony. I'm going with this one because it's 
less convoluted.

Either way, Tobias seemed to be casting rather harsh judgement on 
Eileen (and Severus?), possibly since finding out that Eileen and 
Severus were magical folk. Magic *is* seen as a sin or sign of 
possession by the devil or something by some. And that would explain 
Snape's dislike of muggles and "mudbloods." JKR did say that she was 
glad no one knew she was a Christian because of how the books ended, 
so perhaps there is some meaning in the literal translation 
of "Tobias." I've *no* idea how you could work this into the story, 
but it would be interesting, to say the least.  

So, we have a first name contradictory to the character of the 
person. However, and I hope people are a little familiar with the 
parts of language, *in addition* to the last name, it describes 
said person perfectly because the first name what who they are and 
the last name is what they're doing. Reminds me of the parts of 
speech actually, Nomitive, Accusative, Dative; see this is what 
happens when you read HP while learning German. But the grammatical 
analogy actually does fit, even if it is irrelevant. Anyway...

With Eileen, you have someone who *used* to be a very promising 
person, Bright, Shining, a worthy rival to the best of them, but she 
got caught up with a really sucky guy in Tobias. So, she was 
a "Bright One" (first name) and better than most, possibly the best, 
in many of her endeavors (see last name). But when she married Tobias 
Snape, the "Bright One" became an "outrage" to her family, 
maybe "dishonored" and "disgraced" them by marrying a muggle? Her 
family(?) and her husband(?) rebuked/snubbed her and were hard on her 
afterwards, but for entirely different reasons. 

Right-o. So on to Snape; his name etymology is pretty well-known, me 
thinks. http://www.geocities.com/edgarbook/names/s/severus.html

Anyone else thinking there's some familial connection *somewhere* 
between Severus and Lucius. Come to think of it, does anyone 
remember the names listed on the family tree tapestry in Book 5 in 
Grimauld Place? Any "Prince" on it anywhere? Anywhere?

"Severus Snape" fits the character's personality perfectly, both the 
first and last name. Whereas, his parents' names seem to contradict 
at first glance and only make sense if they're saying something about 
their intrinsic or original nature and what they end up doing or 
becoming. An aside, it's almost as if Severus is exactly what you'd 
get if you put two people together whose characters were twisted away 
from their original state in the manner described above. 

And btw, what meaning would we get if Snape's middle name 
was Tobias? Maybe, a stern, sharp rightous-like person whose purpose 
it is to rebuke people and keep them in line. Or a stern, sharp 
disgraceful loser who squandered his chance in life at being a good 
person. See what I mean about the meaning of his names falling 
exactly into the two camps? I'm of the opinion that Snape was the 
latter and is/will become(-e + ing)the former.

*scratches head* Did *any* of that make sense? Just a little? 
For the record, I think Snape is *still* GOOD! 

*Snape-haters begin objecting, AyanEva covers ears with hands and 
sings loudly "LALALALA!!!"* ;-)


Ok, I'm done. Phrew!


AyanEva 

*walks away chanting "SNAPE ROCKS! SNAPE ROCKS!"* <---yeah, I'm 
determined.