Snape as coward and other responses

[juli17 at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 134054

Lynn wrote:

Snape is a coward.  Regardless of whether he ends up on the side of good or 
evil, he didn't have the courage to "break the cycle" of violence in which he 
was apparently raised and instead "got his own back" by bullying those who 
couldn't fight back.  That's not bravery, that's cowardice.

Lynn
 
Julie now:
I agree with you that Snape has at times acted cowardly, bullying those
who can't fight back. But other times he has acted quite bravely, like 
exposing his Dark Mark and going back to LV at DD's bidding. I think 
labels for people sometimes get overused, as if a person can be 
fully represented by one label. We all have opposite characteristics 
within us--bravery and cowardice, kindness and cruelty, love and hate,
etc, etc. At best a label comes down to the sum of one's acts, and I 
don't think we've seen the sum of Snape's acts yet. 
 
 

Witherwings:
Makes sense that they would fall in together.  My question is, how loyal is 
Snape to anybody?  Seems like he's just as likely to go after Voldemort's 
position as soon as the opportunity presents itself, then support him.

Julie now:
Maybe I'm alone in this, but I've never seen Snape as a person who lusts
for power. RESPECT is what Snape wants. Acknowledgement of his
abilities. But power, the ability to control everyone around him, I don't 
really see it. Snape is also a person who takes wounds personally
(to say the least!), and if Voldemort in some way wounded him,
then Snape would want revenge far more than power. Far more.
 
 
Marisa writes:
But where is it ever indicated that DD would have become aware 
of Snape's betrayal in those moments before his death. DD 
pleads, "Severus.." from the moment that Snape walks through 
the door. Just doesn't seem likely that Snape's appearance on 
the rooftop was proof to DD that Snape's loyalties lay with the 
DE's.

Julie now:
This is a very good point. Harry hears pleading in DD's voice
when DD first whispers "Severus." At this point Snape has just
walked up, and hasn't even looked at DD. At which point DD 
has no reason to suddenly think that Snape has switched sides 
and no reason to start pleading for his life/pleading for Snape
not to throw away his own life. Hence DD can only be 
pleading for Snape to do something DD's *already* wants/ 
expects Snape to do before Snape ever starts to take any
action whatsoever.
 
I'm having a hard time reading it any other way. It could
be a timing error on JKR's part, but she is pretty careful
with her writing (other than things involving maths) as we
saw with how carefully she worded the prophecy.
 
 
 
Catalyna wrote:
The scene where Dumbledore is killed is also off-kilter.  Snape just 
comes in and kills him. No sneers, no insults, no nothing, is this 
the Snape we all know and love to hate (or hate to love)?  
Dumbledore was talking with Draco trying to get him to come to the 
light, no pleading for his life.  I think he was more concerned 
about Draco's life and all of sudden when Snape comes in he's 
seemingly pleading about his life?  Nope, that scene just feels real 
strange.
 
Julie now:
I agree again. Not only does Snape not gloat over how he's
pulled the wool over DD's eyes all these years, but DD also
doesn't try and dissuade Snape in any meaningful manner.
If DD really thought Snape had turned back to evil, he's 
the type who would make every effort to turn Snape back,
just as he went to great lengths to turn Draco back. But 
he didn't, because he didn't need to turn Snape back, as
Snape remained on DD's side. 

Ersatz Harry wrote:
(1) I found it perplexing that Snape's old Potions text would make it
in the bin of old ones available for class use.  Perhaps Snape liked
to keep it close at hand when he was the Potions professor, but
something about its getting into Harry's hands feels a bit contrived.
I can't imagine that Snape would inadvertently leave it lying around.

At the same time, I'm having trouble seeing how this little feat could
realistically have been engineered.  Was this the real reason that
Slughorn was brought back?  Let's see, says DD, Harry won't take
Potions any more if he got too low an OWL, therefore he won't have
bought the text, therefore my putting Slughorn in will get Harry to
take the class without a text and will create an excuse to put Snape's
old text in his hands.  Feels like a bit much.  Any thoughts?
 
Julie says:
DD knew he wasn't going to be around the next year and he knew 
one way or another (by the worst case scenario that did happen
or some hoped for lesser scenario) Snape was returning to LV 
with all appearances of having converted to evil again. And I'm 
sure DD also doesn't expect Snape to survive that return. Snape
will die paving the way for Harry to defeat of Voldemort. So DD
gave Snape his heart's desire, the DADA position. 
 
As for the Potions book, that may have been DD's idea rather
than Snape's. (I too can't see Snape inadvertently leaving it 
lying about). DD figured Harry could learn Potions knowledge
he will need to survive his search for the Horcruxes from the
Hogwarts best Potions master, Snape, via this roundabout 
way. And Snape went along with it, judging by the fact that
he let Harry get away with keeping the potions book even
after the incident with Draco. 
 
Trekkie wrote:
I still have this feeling that it was Hagrid that was the witness, if we're 
going for the "Snape and Dumbledore made an Unbreakable Vow" theory. Hagrid 
is backing Snape up ALL the time almost to the point of being a total echo 
of Dumbledore's "I trust Severus Snape"

So my guess is that Hagrid KNOWS exactely WHY Dumbledore trusts Snape.

Julie says:
I think it's also very interesting that we *never* saw Snape take a swipe
at Hagrid, not once (as I recall). And Hagrid is a pretty good target,
lovable but like a grown Neville, borderline incompetent. How could
Snape resist? Yet somehow he did. 
 
It's interesting too that Hagrid didn't believe Harry when Harry said
Snape had AKed Dumbledore. And at no point in the final scenes
does Hagrid say anything about believing Snape to have turned
back to LV, though McGonagall and others do. At least not that
I recall (gotta read those scenes again) though he does shed
tears over Dumbledore's death. 
 
Meanwhile, McGongall mentions once again that Dumbledore
said he had an "ironclad" reason to trust Snape. It's pretty 
inconceivable to her that it could be because Snape felt 
guilty about revealing the prophecy to LV (as she expresses
when Harry relates Dumbledore's supposed reason). That's
not even close to an "ironclad" reason to me either.
 
Julie 



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