Lily, Dumbledore, and AK

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 134566


> > Melissa, in fact, tries to clarify by asking:
> > 
> > "MA: So no one - Voldemort or anyone using Avada Kedavra - ever  
> > gave someone a choice and then they took that option [to die] -
> > 
> > JKR: They may have been given a choice, but not in that particular 
> > way."

> Saraquel:
> I took it to mean that no-one has sacrificed themselves for someone 
> who is the oject of a Horcrux attempt.  DD says to Harry (UK Ed 
> p473, ch23) "I am sure that he was intending to make his final 
> Horcrux with your death.  As we know, he failed."  Which implies to 
> me that the curse which he used to try and kill Harry was somehow 
> more than a straightforward AK curse, it also had something else 
> bound into it that was designed to create the Horcrux.
> 

Valky:
I find it hard to understand how we might extrapolate intentional
Horcrux Harry from "I am sure that he was intending to make his final
Horcrux with your death......"

If he was making a Horcrux of Harry in this case, then DD is wrong
altogether, or he is supposing that Voldemort intended "Harry's Dead
Body" for a Horcrux which is weird but, I suppose, possible. However,
in any case I'd like to explore an alternative while we are at it. 

Jo also said in this interview (among many other things which it has
taken me a while to process) that Dumbledore laid many clues for Harry
in HBP and throughout the series. From that, I get the feeling that we
should be working more from an assumption that DD was right, and
essentially, clear in what he was saying in HBP. 

(And one other thing about the conclusion that Harry is a Horcrux in
proof by virtue of his scar.. Does Nagini have a scar too?
I don't have my copy of GOF.. (please don't ask, I am too, too patient
sometimes) so I can't check to be sure. However, I really don't think
Nagini has a scar or a symbol of Voldemort on her self. Which leads me
to believe that Harry's scar makes him not a Horcrux case simplex, but
a complex exception of sorts.)

There are also several reasons why I think DD's clues are actually
leading Harry into a different direction about the events of Godrics
Hollow. They are:

Nagini: - Voldemort is *shiver* /fond/ of Nagini, she is his
companion. She is a *living* Horcrux. She was the chosen replacement
for the /failed/ GH Horcrux attempt. She is a SHE. 

The Prophecy:- The Prophecy applies to Voldie because he *makes* it
apply. The Prophecy says Voldie *marked his equal* at Godrics Hollow.
Harry was marked as Voldies equal. A Failed AK does not necessarily
equal a mark of equality. 

General:- We still don't know why the AK failed, exactly. Jo gives a
very large hint that specific circumstances made it happen. DD says
that living Horcruxes are hard to control, risky.

Harry, Nagini and Voldemort share a connection that Voldie doesn't
have with his other Horcruxes.

Adding things up in some manner we have the events of Godrics Hollow
looking a bit like this:

Voldie intended to make a Horcrux using the soul splitting murder of
Harry as a tool.
He tried to Kill Harry but ended up marking him his equal.
Somewhere between here and there he lost the Horcrux because he had to
replace it.
He chose a living Horcrux to replace it - tending to indicate that a
living Horcrux was always intended. A she-mate living Horcrux -
tending to indicate that a she-mate may have been intended. Harry,
Nagini and Voldemort are all like the same being - but in esscence
divided - Equals?

All according to DD :- Voldemort would have succeeded if it weren't
for Lily, therefore his risk was Lily. Living Horcruxes are a risk.

So wobbling around on these premises somewhere is an ugly disturbing
hypothesis..

Voldie went to Godrics Hollow to kill Harry and use the event to make
Lily a living, Horcrux, equal she-mate... Like Nagini..

Make her an offer she can't refuse.. and she'll step aside.. perhaps.

Ok, when you're finished throwing up.. 

I'll continue. 

Lily sacrificed herself for Harry and left a lingering protection
thereby. Harry's blood connection to Lily extended the protection to
him.When Voldemort took Harry's blood he thought he was actually,
bypassing the protection left by Lily's sacrifice, but DD thought
otherwise.

So lets assume that Voldie waltzed into GH and offered Lily the world
at her feet, the sharing of equal power with the ruler of the world,
the path to her own immortality etc etc. And she said "No thanks I'll
keep my baby boy instead." What happened then? 

Well we could glean a scenario from somewhere. Let's say the DADA
position.. Dumbledore said "No thanks Voldie." and in return Voldie
cursed Dumbledores DADA class, suffice to say he didn't like taking
"No" for an answer. 

So perhaps he cursed Lily... hmmm. 

Lets take another scenario.. what about the Hufflepuff/Slytherin
relics, he couldn't have them either.. but they were relics, he had
his heart set on them.. so what did he do? He killed her and took
them. Hmm so these relic things he wants for horcruxes, he'll try to
take them by force..

Maybe that's what he did with the DADA position too. Would the curse
have lifted if Dumbledore gave in and gave Voldie the DADA job? Yeah
likely.. he'd want to stay more than a year I'd suppose.

Soo the pattern emerges.. If Voldemort doesn't get what he wants.. he
takes it by force. 

Lets have one more scenario shall we.. the Graveyard, Voldemort wants
to duel Harry and kill him. Harry doesn't really want to do that..
What does Voldemort do? "Imperio.. do as I say.." 

Yeah taking it by force is the pattern of behaviour, and if Voldie
wanted a Horcrux, an equal, a mate at Godrics Hollow, then he maybe
tried to take it by force too. Why not? His Mother did.

So assuming all I have assumed so far, Voldemort will tell Lily to get
out of the way he's gonna do it anyway. So what does he do now.. ?

Lets go back to the battle in the MOM.. 
1. Voldemort sends an Avada Kedavra at Harry, and Harry's mind is
blank his wand points uselessly at the floor.
2. Dumbledore vanishes the snake and froze LV in a cocoon of water.

Two spells at once appear to be possible. So could Voldemort have
tried to do double magic at Godrics Hollow?

He points an Avada Kedavra at Baby Harry, a finisher. And at Lily he
points the little Horcrux experiment he had in mind..
equal-connected-horcrux. 

Lily jumps in front of the Avada Kedavra and she dies.

Sometime after this happens Voldemort's body is dead, Harry is scarred
and has collected some of Voldemorts powers in the process. 

So the final Hypothesis.

The transfer of powers and the mark of equality were a result
deliberate efforts by Voldemort to secure himself a final Living
Horcrux, an ultimate demonstration of his unmatched power. How Harry
ended up with them is anybody's guess. Why Harrys Muggleborn Mother,
who knows? Voldies Hypocrisy knows no bounds. 

Just one more thought before I leave off my incessant rambling about
this topic..

Voldemort wanted his Horcruxes to have the Founders objects
surrounding and protecting them. Is Godrics Hollow itself a Hogwarts
Founders object?

Valky