[HPforGrownups] Re: Why did Snape take the UV in the first place?

[Kathryn Jones]

No: HPFGUIDX 134687

Bob Alberti wrote:
snip
> I don't believe that the idea of the Unbreakable Vow was
> pre-discussed, nor was DD's death.  In the midst of war, many things
> have to be improvised either to stay alive or to seek advantage.

Kathy writes:
    I had the feeling that Snape and Dumbledore had already discussed 
the fact that he was dying.  Dumbledore is too cagey and Snape is too 
Slytherin to evade or ignore the possibility that Dumbledore could be 
killed hunting horcruxes. I don't think Narcissa arrived without prior 
notice. I had the feeling that Snape led her into the idea very 
skillfully by suggesting that he might be able to help. It would have 
been a good move, if Draco had cooperated, to make sure that he was 
always aware of what Draco was doing. I think Snape made the decision at 
the time and told Dumbledore what he had done later. Dumbledore told him 
that he must then go through with it to protect his position with Voldemort.
KJ

> Chris (flowerchild4) wrote:
> 
>>> As you stated, the Fidelius Charm is now defunct.  The Order is
> going to need another secret keeper ASAP!  Sirius' father made the
> house unplottable (OOtP p115 AmEd.) so it is still protected by
> that.  However, Snape knows where it is and I'm sure any member of
> the extended Black family would also know.  So the Order really
> needs to find a new secret keeper!<<
   Chris

Kathy writes:
     Dumbledore moved everybody out of the house after Sirius died. 
There was still nothing in HBP to show that anyone had gone back to it 
during the year, that I can recall anyway. It could be that they have 
set up shop somewhere else, or Dumbledore will leave them a place in his 
will. At that time they will have to have a new SK. In the meantime, 
Snape will be able to send the DE to Grimmauld Place and find it unoccupied.
KJ

> Samantha:
>> But what occured to me is, if you no longer have the memory, how could
>> you remember to look for it later? Because, you wouldn't know what you
>> were looking for when you needed it later, would you?
    Samantha

Kathy writes:
     It seems that there are two things mentioned that a pensieve deals 
with, memories and feelings. You could leave the memories and remove the 
feelings. In that way you would have all the memories available but be 
able to hide how you felt about it. You could just remove parts of the 
memories if you were careful how you did it, as was mentioned elsewhere. 
  What is apparently very difficult to do, is change memories, or plant 
false ones. In Snape's case, I believe that the memories were left 
intact and the feelings of remorse removed. Voldemort, having no 
feelings of remorse himself would not even notice a lack. Doing this 
would, of course, tend to leave Snape a rather nasty piece of work if he 
doesn't have a single sorry thought left in his head. Snape? Nasty?
KJ

   Craig
> Couldn't the death of Moaning Myrtel have created a Horcrux in one of the
> awards (whether the service award or the magical merit award)?  It seems
> that a death in Hogwarts would have been necessary to create a Horcrux in
> Hogwarts.  The Horcrux in the diary could have been made after Tom left
> school because it was in Malfoy's possession and not locked in the trophy
> room of the school.  The diary could have been easily created off campus,
> but an item in the trophy room *must* have been made within the school as
> these items are locked within the trophy room.
> Craig

Kathy writes:

    I don't think MM was a significant enough person for Voldemort to 
kill for horcrux making. Also a murder has to be done coldly and 
deliberately for a soul split to occur. MM was also killed by the 
basilisk and might not qualify as a Voldemort murder either. I also 
think that the horcrux can be made at any time after the murder. It 
might take him some time to get his object for his horcrux, but his soul 
piece will remain within him until it is encased. In thinking about that 
award, it brings to mind the fact that we still do not know who Florence 
was kissing or who Bertha Jorkins followed. We do know that Dumbledore 
was studying that memory in OotP. Perhaps "Florence" smuggled the trophy 
out to Voldemort.
KJ

   Shumar1999
> I wish we had more information about horcruxes, like how you get your
> piece of your soul into the object. And speaking of "object", it is my
> feeling that horcruxes have to be OBJECTS and not living beings.
   Shumar

Kathy writes:
    I think that ordinarily only objects would be used as horcruxes. In 
this case, I think that Dumbledore knows better as well, he is just 
suggesting Nagini to get Harry thinking along the lines of a possible 
living horcrux. He still can't come right out and tell Harry much in 
case Voldemort listens in. I don't think that Voldemort is intending to 
make his final horcrux with anything else except Harry's death. I think 
also that Snape was forced to kill Dumbledore to prevent his death from 
being used as a horcrux death. If Dumbledore's death was caused by the 
potion, it would have been considered a significant  killing by 
Voldemort. Dumbledore does not want any more Voldemort pieces on the loose.
KJ