Of Caves and Tarot Cards

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 135546

> Merrylinks responds:
> I'm afraid I disagree, Jen. Thanks to legilimency, DD knows what 
> Harry is primarily concerned about, and that is the safety of the 
> school. The problem is, Dumbledore figures he has the safety issue 
> covered. Just like an impatient parent, he dismisses Harry's 
> objections in order to get on with the task at hand. What he
> doesn't realize is that Harry is bringing him *new* information
> that requires *new* defense tactics. 

Jen: I think we're pretty much on the same page here. I agree 
Dumbledore dismissed Harry's concerns much like a parent who feels 
he understands the situation better than the child. And I think he 
did that because he already knew Draco was using the Room of 
Requirement. So, like you said, he didn't realize Harry's 
revelations about Draco's 'whooping' actually contained vital 
information that DD *doesn't* know, about the Vanishing Cabinent.

Where we may differ (?) is I can't fault Dumbledore for making that 
decision. He does feel he understands the situation better than 
Harry does, and I suspect it's because he trusts Severus to monitor 
Draco more closely than Harry can. So I see the communication 
breakdown coming between Dumbledore and Snape rather than Dumbledore 
and Harry. Either Snape had no clue about the Vanishing Cabinent 
(which he didn't seem to when he and Draco fought after Slug's 
party) or Snape is deliberately witholding that information from 
Dumbledore.

So Dumbledore's trust of Snape, combined with the urgency he feels 
about teaching Harry everything he knows about the Horcruxes, is 
probably what led to the brush-off.

Merrylinks:
> I think that in this book Harry has matured beyond needing 
> vengeance against Malfoy. His thoughts as he tries to open the 
> Room of Requirement indicate that--"I need to see what Malfoy's
> doing in here..."; I need to see the place where Malfoy keeps
> coming secretly..."; I need you to become the place you become for
> Draco Malfoy..." His objective is to find out what Draco is trying 
> to fix, not trying to fix blame on Draco. The broken item,
> whatever it is, is dangerous. And once Harry knows that Draco has 
> fixed it, the danger is what he focuses on.

Jen: Actually, I was thinking more of Snape when I mentioned 
vengeance (but forgot to clarify that little detail<g>). Harry just 
found out Snape was the eavesdropper whose actions helped seal the 
fate of the Potters. He was understandably enraged at that moment, 
so much so that even though he overheard Snape and Draco arguing and 
heard Draco is using Occlumency to keep things from Snape, Harry 
still implicates Snape when talking to Dumbledore.

Purely opinion here, but I wonder if Harry including Snape is what 
turned DD off the conversation? Dumbledore knows how much Harry 
hates him, and I think Harry was right in thinking he needed to 
control his emotions better in that scene. Given his emotional 
intensity, Dumbledore probably heard another round of 'getting 
Snape' rather than actually focusing on what Harry was saying about 
Draco and his whooping.

Merrylinks, from post #135527:
> Let me try again. When Dumbledore silently asks Snape to kill him, 
> his motivation is that by allowing himself to die, he will be 
> protecting the students. I don't believe that DD is casting a Lily-
> Potter-like protective charm. Rather, he realizes that the
> immediate objective of Draco and the Death Eaters' invasion of the
> school is to kill him. Once they do, it will be "Mission
> Accomplished" and they will all leave. Dumbledore has made a 
> serious error when he doesn't listen to Harry's information about
> the dangerous thing Draco has fixed. On the Tower, by asking Snape
> to kill him, DD is able to make a sort of atonement for his error,
> thus protecting the students from further harm at the wands of the
> Death Eaters. 

Jen: Ooooh, OK, I completely understand now and have to say that's a 
really sweet and sad thought *sniff*. I hadn't thought about the 
scene in those terms, but of course Dumbledore would want the DE's 
out of there as quickly as possible! Especially since he thinks 
students are dying (Draco's words). Well, and *he* is dying come to 
that. With one final sweep he can accomplish so many things: Get the 
DE's out of Hogwarts, save Draco, cement Snape's position as a 
Voldemort loyalist.  I'm not sure he's purposefully atoning for his 
error over the Vanishing Cabinent (not sure you were saying that 
anyway), but that's eseentially what he does whether concious or 
not. 

Jen, enjoying this debate very much and thinking this is even more 
evidence for Snape acting on DD's wishes when he killed him.