CIAO DOLCE VITA (Longish)

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 135809

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Juli <jlnbtr at y...> wrote:
> 
> ...edited...
> There's this paragraph I found very interesting: "Bright, white
flames had erupted around Dumbledore's body and the table upon which
he lay: Higher and higher they rose, obscuring the body. White smoke
spiraled into the air and made strange shapes: Harry thought, for one
heart-stopping moment, that he saw a phoenix fly joyfully into the
blue, but the next second the fire had vanished" (Ch 30 P 645).
> 
> I remember I had read months ago something about how a phoenix is a
man (a person) who after he's died, becomes a phoenix. ... he's my
theory Dumbledore is not dead, he's merely changed, he's become a phoenix.
> 

bboyminn:

I'm sorry, I just can't buy Dumbledore transformed into a Phoenix.

I can maybe believe that his death was a fake; Snape's killing curse,
 Dumbledore falling from the tower ramparts, the flash of Phoenix in
the funeral pyre. That he is still alive and in hiding; working far
behind the scene. But for him to have literally changed into a living
Phoenix is just a little TOO magical for me.

So, from my limited perspective, Dumbledore is either alive or dead,
but not transformed.

As far as Dumbledore communicating with Harry and the Order, we have
Dumbledore's portrait, his papers and other personal affects, and the
Pensieve. I think that's all we get.

I do however, and have been since the beginning, hope that Fawkes
joins Harry and becomes his pet and protector. That would be a
tremendous resource to Harry and I think a great comfort.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying your are wrong, only that I don't
believe you.

> Juli:
> 
> So I think this means Dumbledore begged Snape to kill him, and why?
> First, to keep Draco from doing it himself, Second, Dumbledore knew 
> he was about to die anyway, so better to do it quick and painlessly.
>  Also to maintain Snape's cover.
> 


bboyminn:

I'm glad you said killed rather than murdered. Yes, I think Snape
killed Dumbledore, but I think it was indeed because he saw that
Dumbledore was already near dead and in the process of dying. Snape
simply seized the opportunity to make Dumbledore's death work for him,
and put him (Snape) in the strongest possible position to EVENTUALLY
bring down Voldemort. 

It really doesn't need to be any more complicted than that; no 'kill
me' Unbreakable Oaths, or any other such nonsense. Certainly,
Dumdledore may have foreseen his own death coming. He may have even
been slowly dying from the 'dead hand' curse. He and Snape may have
discussed the possibilities. But in the end, Snape simply saw a dying
Dumbledore and made the stituation work to his advantage.

So, relative to Dumbledore's death, Snape is hardly innocent, he may
even be guilty of manslaughter, but I don't think, in the end, anyone
will find him guilty of murder. And hopefully, in the end, they will
understand why he did what he did and forgive him.


> Juli continues:
>
> I think Draco Malfoy will change sides. He'll return to Voldemort,
> he'll be threaten, tortured, and who knows what else, he'll remember
> Dumbledore and his goodness, how up to the last moment he was trying
> to save him. He will go to Harry, Ron, and Hermione and offer his 
> help, ...edited...
> 
> It all can be summarized in:
> 
> CIAO DOLCE VITA : Contrary to the Impressions he isn't gOne. 
> Dumbledore Only sLeeps. Cause Everyone loVes hIm, he'll Turn into 
> A phoenix.
> 
> 
> Juli

Bboyminn:

I think JKR made it clear the Draco talks a good game, but he really
doesn't have the stomach for merciless killing and torture. Further,
although not his initial motivation, Draco's on-going motivation seems
to be to keep Voldemort from killing him. All thought of the original
task has been forgotten, now he only wants to succeed because it means
he continues to live. Consequently, I do believe that Draco will come
around. 

BUT, and that is a very big 'but', I don't think Draco and Harry will
instantly become pals. Too many people take an 'all or nothing'
approach to Draco being redeemed; he is either the spawn of satan, or
he is Harry's best buddy (too much Harry/Draco Slash). I think Draco
will very much continue in a Snape-like role; good but definitely not
nice. However, while Draco and Harry may tolerate working together,
they will never like each other; too much water under the bridge for that.

For what it's worth.

Steve/bboyminn