Sirius and Prank again? Fools Rush in where Wisemen Fear to Go

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 129920

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboyminn at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "dumbledore11214"
> <dumbledore11214 at y...> wrote:
> 
> > Bboyminn:
> > 
> > I have to believe you can see the moral difference in these 
cases, 
> > and further have to believe you can see the degree of shift in 
> > blame. In no case is anyone blameless, but in the first two 
cases, 
> > a greater share of the blame falls on Snape.
> 
> 
> > a_svirn:
> > You mean that Snape deserved to be eaten or bitten by a werewolf 
> > because he was a slimy Slytherin busybody?
> 
>  
> > Alla:
> > 
> > I am really hesitant to speak for Steve, but I think he meant 
that
> > IF Snape went to the tunnel on his own and we have NO indication 
as 
> > far as I can remember that Sirius tied him up and dragged him to 
the
> > Shack, THEN Snape was at least very stupid to do so.
> > 
> > It does not mean that he deserved to be provoked to go there, but
> > again as far as we know nobody forced him to. Am I being 
confusing? 
> > Sirius may as well have an intent to send Snape there, but if he 
was
> > warned about danger beforehand, the story becomes  a bit 
different.
> > 
> > Just speculating here of course.
> > 
> > Alla.
> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> Thank you, Alla, you are absolutely right. 
> 
> First, in none of my scenarios or in my posts have I ever said that
> Sirius bore NO responsibility, because he does. But Snape made a
> choice, he made a choice to override a security measure that was
> obviously put in place for his protection; the Whomping Willow.
> Further, you can't convince me that Snape didn't logically conclude
> that the Headmaster did not want students going near that tree or
> tunnel, and most certainly did not want students entering the 
tunnel.
> Snape made a conscious choice to put himself in harms way and to go
> against the rules put in place to protect him. Snape bares some
> responsibility.
> 
> As Alla pointed out, Sirius did not tie Snape up and throw him 
into a
> dean of werewolfs. Snape went of his own free will.
> 
> I realized that my scenario titles were messed up a bit, 'Reverse
> Psychology' and 'I told you so' are the same one; it's 'Reverse
> Psychology' and 'Eavesdropping'. In those cases Sirius simply made
> somewhat neurtal information available and Snape made a choice to 
use it. 
> 
> In the 'Lily Ploy', Sirius is much more cold and claculated in his
> actions. In the first two, he uses truth to entice Snape, but in 
the
> third, he really tricks Snape into going by giving him false
> information specifically and directly intended to cause Snape to 
enter
> the tunnel. That's measurably closer to tying him up and throwing 
him
> to the wolves than the first two. 
> 
> In the third case, Snape still makes his own choice to go. He still
> does something that any reasonable person would conclude has an
> element of danger, and he still knows he is acting against the 
Headmaster.
> 
> So, in all cases, there is blame for both, but the balances of that
> blame shifts depending on the circumstances, and that is the very
> point I am trying to make. We don't know what happened, though we 
can
> fairly conclude that Sirius's actions were wrong, we have only 
Snape's
> word that they constituded anything close to intended /murder/. And
> once again, in no case is Snape without guilt of his own. 
> 
> Snape made a conscious choice to do something that is both wrong 
and
> logically dangerous. He chose to put himself in harms way. Let me
> conclude by re-enforcing the point that no matter how much guilt 
may
> belong to Snape, it doesn't absolve Sirius's action. 
> 
> Also, Sirius's continued bad attitude toward the incident is easy
> enough to understand since it is long after the fact, and Snape was
> never truly harm; well, his ego might have been harmed, but he 
wasn't
> physically hurt.
> 
> In simpliest terms, there is a difference between throwing someone
> into a dean of wolves, and simply telling him where the dean is.
> 
> That's all I'm trying to say.
> 
> Steve/bboyminn

There is a difference between "not without guilt" and "greater share 
of guilt". You say that Snape is to blame because he acted on his 
own free will, according to his own choices, based on the 
information he'd got and breaking school rules and security measures 
in the process. But that's exactly what Harry Potter has been doing 
since his year one. Would you say that he bears "the greater share 
of guilt" that Voldermort for his near brushes with death? I suspect 
you would not, but where is the difference? The way I see it the 
only difference is that Harry is nice and good, while Snape is a 
horrid slimeball. 

a_svirn