[HPforGrownups] Re: Dept. of Mysteries, "Love" room.

[Katherine Coble]

No: HPFGUIDX 129933


On Jun 2, 2005, at 12:45 PM, Tonks wrote:
>
>  Tonks:
>  "There is no good or evil, only power and those too afraid to use
>  it." This is what LV believes.


K:  It's what he believes.  Unfortunately, he is wrong.


>
>  How did Tom become LV?  I have a theory about that, and here goes. 
>  There is an ancient magic, this much we know. In this ancient magic
>  before time and space there were 2 forces.  One is the force of pure
>  Love in its highest form.  This is the type of love that C.S. Lewis
>  refers to as Agape Love.  In this ancient magic there was also
>  another type of force, one that was weaker.  The weaker force
>  appears to be stronger because it is fueled by strong and dangerous
>  emotions of fear and hate. 

K:  This is Star Wars Cross Contamination, in my opinion.  I think of 
LV's fall as more in line with Lucifer--driven by pride and a desire 
for immortality.



> The stronger force is Love which appears
>  weaker because it is genital and kind. 

K:   I know this is a typo, but this type of love is Eros...;-)



> Within the force of Love is
>  something else that is not show to the world often, but is the part
>  of Love that give it power "at once more wonderful and more terrible
>  than death…".  And this part of Love is self sacrifice and
>  forgiveness. 

K: Nope.  That's Grace.  God's nature is Love.  Grace is the action 
springing from that nature.




>  There is a saying, I think a quote by one of the Saints, and it goes
>  like this.  "Love and do as you will."

K:  This is a saying from Wicca, actually.   I doubt a Catholic Saint 
would have said it.


>    This implies something of
>  the "there is no good or evil only power" idea. 


K:  Again, you are trying to reconcile two diametrically opposed belief 
systems....the pantheistic Wiccan belief of dualism with the Christian 
belief of self-sacrificing love.  I don't think it works.


>  The idea is that if
>  you truly Love with a capital L, then you will not do anything to
>  harm another living thing. This type of Love is what is in the room
>  in the MoM.
>
>  Back to the second power, the weaker one.   I know there are many
>  different spiritual believes in the members of this group, but lets
>  use the term *Devil* for a moment just to make the point easier to
>  illustrate.  Let's say there is such an entity as the *Devil* and
>  the second type of power is his.   How would this play out in the
>  life of Tom Riddle?   Given his background it is possible to see Tom
>  as a teenager who was both afraid of death and of love.  One of the
>  weapons the Devil has is *fear*.  It is his most powerful weapon and
>  he uses it well.  He uses it as he whispers in the mind of Tom and
>  later through Tom to Harry.  Hate is also a weapon that the Devil
>  uses.   These two, fear and hate, combined can work within anyone
>  and does work within Tom Riddle to make him into something that is
>  the embodiment of the second power and the opposite of Love.       
>


K:  Two things...this is Star Wars cross-contamination again.   "Fear 
leads to Anger, Anger leads to hate....etc."  All of that BS that Yoda 
spouts.   One, Fear is natural.  It gives us a context for struggle.   
Two, Anger is not bad or sinful.  How one acts on their anger is.

The other thing is that the Devil's greatest tool is pride.  Pride is 
what he uses to lure Adam and Eve in the fall, etc.   As Milton's Satan 
says "I'd rather Rule in Hell than Serve in Heaven."   That is the 
nature of the Christian satan, and I believe is also the nature of LV.




>  Remember when Lupin (or was it DD?) tells Harry that it is good that
>  he is only afraid of *fear* itself?  That is another way of saying
>  that there is nothing that can separate us from Love, not even
>  death.  There is nothing to fear, but the idea of fear.

K:  Hey, it worked for FDR......


>
>
>  The bottom line of what I am saying here is that it is Love that is
>  the great and powerful weapon in the DoM.It is a strong,
>  powerful, dangerous and wonderful Love with a capital L.  (Of
>  course, you all know by now what *Who* I think that really is. And
>  you also know that I think that this is the message the author has
>  in mind when writing her books.)
>


K:  I've missed earlier discussions, I think.  I can't recall the *who* 
that you think this is.

I'm sorry if I've not been more verbose in my explanation.  Basically, 
I realize that these stories are not overtly Christian in nature. 
However, I think that it would be nice, after sitting through 6 star 
wars movies, 4 of which were gratingly disappointing, that I'd like to 
see this story have a slightly different resolution.   I'd like to see 
the bad guy be the bad guy for once and I'd like to see him vanquished.

That's just my hope anyway.   I'm not at all saying Tonks is wrong.  
I'm just bringing my baggage with me.


Katherine

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