Sirius and Prank again? Fools Rush in where Wisemen Fear to Go

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 130043

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "M.Clifford" <Aisbelmon at h...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "a_svirn" <a_svirn at y...> 
wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > Alla:
> > > 
> > <snip> I said that Snape did not deserve to BE provoked, but as 
> > > far as we know nobody forced him to go into the Shack.
> > > 
> > a_svirn:
> > And who says that he was "forced" to go there? Not even Snape 
clamed 
> > that.
> 
> 
> Valky:
> I think Alla's point is that if Severus was not forced to go to the
> Shack against his will, then he must shoulder blame as far as at 
least
> making the decision to go there.

a_svirn:

Well, in GoF Voldemort "forced" Harry to come to the Graveyard, 
while in OOP he just gave Harry information and waited patiently for 
Harry to "freely" make up his mind. Does it mean that Voldemort 
mellowed a bit over the year? That his behaviour in OOP is less 
murderous than in GoF? And if not, why we should apply different 
criteria to Sirius? If he *wanted* to kill Snape it doesn't matter 
in the least whether he "forced" him or lured him into the Shack 
playing on his weaknesses. In fact the latter seems even more 
cynical, especially considering that the betrayal of his friend was 
involved. If he didn't intend to kill or even to play a prank and 
the whole business was an accident – well, then there is nothing 
more to say. It doesn't seem likely though. 

> Valky:
> 
> I agree with that, and this is, in most ways, how I read the 
derisive
> noise that Sirius makes when Snape begins his monologue about the
> "prank". I don't think Sirius is expressing continued amusement at 
the
> prank 

a_svirn:

Because it wasn't a prank. It would have been a prank if James had 
been in on it. But if Lupin to be believed he wasn't, which makes it 
look more like a murder attempt. 

> Valky:
I think he is expressing his contempt for the whole "I am
> completely blameless and innocent" line from Severus.

a_svirn:
And when did ever Snape say that? 

> Valky:
> Sirius does not think Sevvie was blameless,

a_svirn:
Of course, he wouldn't! But then he blamed Snape for the very fact 
of his existence. 

> Valky:
 and apparently neither did
> Dumbledore.

a_svirn:
And how is that apparent? 

> Valky:
> Also in respect to my point about James forgiving him, I think 
James
> needed to forgive the mess that Sirius got him and Lupin into. 
James
> would have needed to protect Snape from Transformed Lupin *without*
> giving away his animagii form. Besides the fact that I really doubt
> that James, in spite of his cockiness, didn't care about the danger
> Lupin had been put in either. So James had some things to forgive
> Sirius for, and he managed to. The entire Marauders crew would 
simply
> have to be a bunch of murderous malignants for it to be remotely
> possible that Snape was completely innocent. Is anyone prepared to
> argue flat out that they are?
>

a_svirn:
Innocent of what? Do you blame him for being a "poisonous toadstool" 
as Ron put it? Or do you blame him for being nearly killed?