JKR and Inconsistency (was:Re: Sirius and Prank again? Fools Rush...)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 130045

>>Betsy Hp:
<snip>
>Hmm, I know others on the list think Snape should have made the 
connection between his werewolf studies and Lupin.  But I disagree.<
<snip>
 
>>Mags (jumping in because this is one of my hobbyhorses):
>Speaking as one of those people, albeit a newbie - It's not just 
that he was studying werewolves. It's also the things that James, 
Sirius & Remus say in the Pensieve scene.<
<snip of thoghts on pensieves>

Betsy Hp:
Welcome to the list. I'm glad you jumped in. :)  I *am* going to 
posit that Snape did not hear what the Mauraders said to each other.  
Because if he had it would have been game over for Lupin.  (Same if 
anyone else had overheard what they were saying -- *very* careless of 
the boys, but completely in character.)  One word to a well placed 
parent (and Snape, per canon, is connected to some high placed 
families) and pressure would have been brought to bare on Dumbledore 
and Lupin would have been out.  (Dumbledore may well have lost his 
position as Headmaster as well.)

I'm not going to get into how pensieves work, 'cause I don't really 
know and it's something I just take the author's word on.  (Lazy, I 
admit, but I've got other windmills to tilt at. <g>)  But we know for 
a fact that Snape is *not* paying attention to the Mauraders.  In 
fact the only reason he settles so close to them is because he has no 
idea that they're there until he's attacked.

>>Mags: 
>So even if Snape didn't overhear that particular conversation, if he 
was really following them around (and in particular, trying to find 
out where Remus went "every month", as Remus says), it seems like he 
would have overheard similar exchanges. A couple of references like 
that, and noticing that the person in question disappears once a 
month, and it doesn't seem like it'd be that hard to put it together.<

Betsy Hp:
Why would Snape know anything about where Lupin slept?  And as I said 
upthread, Snape was more interested in what James and Sirius got up 
to than Lupin, IMO, who as far as we've been shown had little to do 
with the war James and Sirius were waging on Snape.  As to what Lupin 
tells Harry, I don't trust he's telling the whole truth.  Throughout 
PoA he holds back information and uses dribs and drabs of information 
to misdirect people.  He tells Harry, in PoA, that Snape hated James 
because of James' quidditch skills.  As we learn in OotP, there's a 
lot more to it.

Plus, I just cannot see Snape, even at fifteen, being stupid enough 
to try and take on a full grown werewolf by himself.  Even Harry 
would hesitate to do something so foolhardy, and he's suffers a lot 
more of the "fools rush in" syndrom than I imagine Snape ever did. 
(Of course I could well be proved wrong. <g>)

>>Mags: 
>It just seems to me that there's something odd about the whole 
sequence of events. I'm torn on whether I think that a) Snape knew 
what was up when he went to the Shack, b) Pensieves are only as 
accurate as human memory, or c) the Prank actually happened before 
the Pensieve scene; but it seems to me that one of those things must 
be true, and (a) strikes me as the most likely.<

Betsy Hp:
I seriously doubt (c) is true.  Otherwise Sirius and James are even 
bigger jerks than they appear.  And Snape would have been *way* more 
leery of Lupin.  But yes, the sequence of events *is* odd.  Because 
we still don't have the full story.  I think it's Potioncat who 
referred to the prank as a jigsaw puzzle, and I think that's an apt 
analogy.  Until we have all the pieces the picture won't make sense.

>>Eloise:
<snip>
>If Snape set the werewolf homework in an attempt to expose Lupin and
Hermione realised, then surely Snape, two school years further down
the line, snooping after MWPP and noticing that Lupin disappeared
every month (did he really not notice it was full moon?) should also
have put two and two together. Again, I think JKR has been giving us
deliberate parallels.<
<snip>

Betsy Hp:
Yes, there are parallels, but I don't think they are meant to be 
exact.  eg There are parallels between the Maurader generation and 
Harry's generation, but no character *exactly* parallels another.  
And if Hermione was the *only* student who picked up on the essay 
assignment, as a third year, doesn't that show a certain above normal 
intelligence on her part?  Hogwarts students have been studying 
werewolves for decades, I would imagine.  Why is Snape the only 
student who *should* have figured Lupin's secret out?  (Because, 
again, I don't know why Snape would realize that Lupin wasn't 
sleeping in his dormroom on full-moon nights.)

>>Eloise:
>Oh, yes, Snape's convinced that Sirius is guilty of all that (as I've
argued strongly in the past against those who think Snape is solely
out for personal revenge). But he only needs to take him back to the
castle to get his just desserts.
<snip>
>At that particular moment, it *is* personal vengeance that is on
Snape's mind. It's also the personal experience that convinces him of
Sirius' and Lupin's guilt (it's the event that he's used to suggest
to Dumbledore that Lupin isn't trustworthy and hence he has
presumably been brooding on it all year).
>In any case, it doesn't alter the case that we have two parallel
scenarios: Sirius attepts to feed Snape to a werewolf, Snape attempts
to feed Sirius to the Dementors. It makes a nice balance.<

Betsy Hp:
It *does* make a nice balance, and it does shape the distrust Snape 
has towards all the Mauraders.  Actually, I agree with everything 
you've said here.  It is personal, Snape does want to see Sirius die 
(just as Lupin and Sirius want to see Peter die).  I don't see how 
any of this falls under the catagory of author inconsistencies 
though. 

>>Betsy Hp:
<snip>
>At least in my opinion, JKR does a good job of showing that these 
two (Snape and Sirius) had not liked each other for a good long 
while.<
<snip>

>>Eloise:
>I don't think we can argue this one conclusively either way,
actually.<
<snip>

Betsy Hp:
Well, I do think a lot of hints have been dropped, especially in 
OotP, that James and Snape practically disliked each other on sight.  
And we know that Sirius was a very good friend to James.  So it makes 
sense that Sirius would dislike Snape too.  However I agree that we 
don't know anything for absolute sure.  We don't have enough 
information, yet.  But again, I fail to see where JKR has done a poor 
job.  Until we have the full tale I don't see how we can point to 
various ambiguities and say this is the fault of JKR's plot 
inconsistencies.  Because there very well could be information she's 
waiting to tell us (I believe she's said books 6 & 7 will be all 
about answers) that will clarify things beautifully.

>>Eloise:
>I'm not "leveling charges", just saying that I think its inevitable
that such inconsistencies creep in, particularly when you just want
to give enough to hint at a background without going laboriously into
detail. I take comfort from knowing that I'm not the only one to find
such inconsistencies and if JKR manages to finish the series tying up
every single on of them, she will have my undying admiration.<

Betsy Hp:
Oh, there are tons of "inconsistencies".  That's why there's so much 
debate going on.  But I think they're all quite deliberate on JKR's 
end.  She knows exactly where Snape stands and why he is the way he 
is.  She knows if Lupin is ESE or not, and she knows how Draco's 
story will end.  But she doesn't want us to know.  Not yet anyway.  
Just like Agatha Christie knew who dunnit but waited until the final 
chapter to let everyone in on the secret.

Of course my biggest fear is that JKR will unveil her plot and it 
will make no kind of sense.  However, I have a pretty strong faith 
that my worst fears will not come true and most if not all 
inconsistencies will be cleared up.  At this point though I stand by 
my statement that it's still too early to blame the inconsistencies 
on author failure.

Betsy Hp