Explaining the danger to Harry (LONG)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 130091

Alla:
<snip> 
And nobody explained to him why  despite the fact the hesaved an 
order member , he should shut it down, IMO.<
 
Betsy Hp:
Okay, I'm tired and just about to go to bed so I apologize in 
advance if I sound snarky, but what part about THE DARK LORD KNOWS 
YOU WERE IN HIS HEAD!!  HE IS NOW TRYING TO GET INTO YOURS!!! do 
folks who *insist* Harry had no earthly idea that anything was wrong 
not understand?  What part of YOU MEAN HE COULD MAKE ME FEEL OR DO 
THINGS? SIR? comes across as "Errrr...  I don't understand what you 
said there professor, could you maybe use one syllable words and a 
picture book, please?  I mean, yes I'm fifteen, but remember when 
you called me an idiot back in the day and I cried and cried and 
cried?  Turns out you were right."??!?!??!??!???!
 
Seriously -- answer me that.  I might start to take arguments about 
Harry the dewy-eyed innocent a little more seriously if there wasn't 
such a blatent refusal to deal with canon taking place.  (And 
there's a large group of you, so this isn't directed at you 
personally, Alla.  I'm honestly curious as to why folks feel like 
the above scene and Dumbledore's FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BOY -- LEARN 
OCCLUMENCY OR ALL IS LOST!! scene are completely disregarded.)


Alla:

Ummm, Betsy, nobody ignores that part of canon ( myself 
included) . :-)

People actually addressed it ( myself included) several times but 
before I do some quoting I will be happy to reiterate the gist of my 
answer to you. :-)


Voldie is ALWAYS in Harry's head and he is aware of it. What he had 
NOT been explained is what CHANGED, why despite the fact that he 
saved Arthur with that connection, he cannot do that anymore.

I can perfectly see that in Harry's mind for example to continue 
keep the connection would be the greater good and nobody told him 
why it won't be.

The clumsy attempt at explanation was given by Harry's least trusted 
teacher, who did not even bother confirm that that is what 
Dumbledore thinks 

"Is it what professore Dumbledore guesses?

I told you to call me Sir" ( paraphrase)

Harry has no reason to trust Snape, IMO. He has no reason to believe 
anything Snape says.

Here again I repeat myself - Snape spend five years cultivating 
emnity and mistrust between them . It finally blew up in his and 
Dumbledore's face. I'd say it is about time. :-)


Phoenixgod in the message 130058 said:

"As other people pointed out Harry was specifically belittled and
made to feel unimportant by Snape during the lessons. I don't think
that impressed on Harry the seriousness of the situation. To him, I
think he saw the lessons as onerus make-work, and yet another cross
added to his burden.

As for DD, he had done precious little that year to earn any
goodwill for Harry. And I certainly wouldn't put any trust in a man
who wouldn't look me in the eye for a year either. Remember, while
this is a short period of time for a novel, the time span is a year.
that is days upon days, weeks upon weeks, and months upon months of
being left in the dark, isolated, beset on all sides by enemies both
within and without the school. That is a long damn time for
Dumbledore to leave Harry twisting in the wind."


Eggplant in 130005 said :

"Ok, let's see what the book says. When the subject is first brought 
up
Harry asks:

"Why do I have to study Occlu— thing?"

Snape replies:

"Because the Headmaster thinks it a good idea,"

Harry tries again:

"`But why does Professor Dumbledore want to stop it?' he asked
abruptly. 'I don't like it much, but it's been useful, hasn't it? I
mean
 I saw that snake attack Mr Weasley and if I hadn't,
Professor Dumbledore wouldn't have been able to save him,
would he? '"

After a long string of insults the closest thing to an answer to
Harry's very reasonable question is:

"It appears that the Dark Lord has been unaware of the
connection between you and himself until very recently".

Harry tries a third time:

"'How do you know?' said Harry urgently. 'Is this just Professor
Dumbledore guessing, or -?'
'I told you,' said Snape, rigid in his chair, his eyes slits, 'to 
call
me "sir".'
'Yes, sir,' said Harry impatiently, 'but how do you know -?'
'It is enough that we know,' said Snape"

So let's review, Snape says that Dumbledore says various things but
Harry has a very deep distrust of Snape and has no way of knowing if
that is true because the Headmaster won't talk to him or even look at
him. Snape says the lessons will strengthen his mind but Harry finds
from direct experience that the exact opposite seems to be happening.
So who should Harry believe, Snape or his eyes. To top it off the
lessons are extremely unpleasant and literally make him sick.

Perhaps it's just me but I wouldn't find that situation entirely
satisfactory. Would that give you a incentive, would that be enough 
to
make you diligently study a distasteful subject from a teacher who
despises you, especially when you know that if you'd mastered it a
month ago your best friend's father would be dead?"


Alla:

So, I don't think anybody is ignoring anything here , Betsy. 

I just find whatever bits and pieces of info were given to Harry 
extremely unsatisfactory AND I also find a messenger to be very 
unsatisfactory. :-) 


Oh, and perhaps you will be surprised but I am not even arguing that 
Harry was entirely right. :-)

He sure made some mistakes and I am sure will recognise them, BUT 
when I start COMPARING his mistakes and Dumbledore and Snape, then 
Harry's mistakes pale to me.

Then I cannot assign more than tiny percentage of blame to Harry, 
because I find what Dumbledore and Snape did so eggregious.

But if I analyse Harry by himself, sure he had his share of mistakes.


Just my opinion,

Alla.