Mental Discipline in the WW: A Comparison (long) (was:Snape the Zen Master...)

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 130229

Betsy:
> I find this interesting because though Harry never produces a
> strong Patronus with Lupin because, as per Lupin, his happy
> thought isn't happy enough, Lupin doesn't assign any kind of
> homework to Harry at all.  If Lupin, who we all agree is a great
> teacher, *doesn't* assign homework, I think it reflects well on
> Snape that he *does* assign Harry homework.  Snape has identified 
> where Harry is the weakest and he attempts to have Harry exercise 
> this one area so that he becomes stronger.  The problem isn't
> Snape's instructions, it's Harry's lack of discipline.

Jen: The bottom line is, when faced with a hundred dementors gliding 
across the lake Harry was able to produce a fully-formed corporeal 
Patronus. When faced with intrusions by the Dark Lord into his mind, 
Harry was unable to use Occlumency to block them.

As Dumbledore might say, "It mattered not which teacher was the 
greatest, what mattered in the end is was how well Harry learned." ;)

This isn't an attempt to discount your analysis of mental discipline 
in general though. Several smaller incidents came to mind reading 
your excellent post, like Harry reading the location of Grimmauld 
Place and imagining it into being, and Harry controlling his mind 
and emotion to repel the beads back into Voldemort's wand. 

And regarding mental discipline, I think Lupin and Snape *both* show 
signs of having excellent mental and emotional control. I find it 
interesting that those two not only survived the first war, but 
managed to become very skillful and powerful wizards along the way 
(I believe this is how Rowling is presenting them). Both had serious 
flaws that could have rendered them ineffective, Lupin's lycantrophy 
and Snape's attraction to the Dark Arts, but both overcame 
those 'particular barriers' to become part of the inside circle of 
the Order.

Betsy:
> But working *within the rules of JKR's world* I think Snape,
> though asking a lot of Harry, was not asking the impossible.  And
> I imagine that if Harry is ever to learn Occlumency we will find
> him sitting in his bed every evening focusing on emptying his mind
> of all emotion.  And I expect Harry will manage it, too.  (With a 
> pinch of fairy dust, of course. <g>)

Jen: Oh, I definitely think Harry is capable of learning Occlumency. 
Unfortunately, that's the single most powerful argument against 
Snape's effectiveness as a teacher for this particular student. 
Harry *is* capable of enormous discipline, he proved that by 
throwing off the Imperius and in the Priori Incantatem scene. 
Therefore, the problem in learning Occlumency had to be one of the 
factors at play besides Harry's ability. Snape's teaching style, 
Harry's motivation, intrusions by LV into his mind--all probably 
affected his ability to learn.