Harry's potential father figures (was Re: Snape as father figure)

[pippin_999]

No: HPFGUIDX 131033

Pippin previously:
> > IMO, Harry's challenge is to grow into someone who could be a 
> > capable father himself despite having lost the good father 
> > he had in James. That means he has to winnow the good 
> > from the bad in all his father figures, Snape included. 

Lupinlore: 
> Once again, I disagree completely.  I think the "multiple father
figure" approach, while very interesting and clever, amounts to
 overanalyzing badly when you link it to "Harry's challenge." 
Harry's challenge is to defeat Voldemort and live to tell about it.  I
acknowledge that a search for a father figure is a part of Harry's
quest (JKR herself has said so).  However, I think that describes an
aspect of his character and personality (a very believable one
considering his history), not the central challenge he faces.

Pippin:
To me, that's like saying the central challenge of Harry's education
is to pass his NEWTs. He needs to pass his NEWTs, but only because
that will prove he's become a very capable wizard. In the same
way, defeating Voldemort will prove that he's become a very
capable adult human being, in contrast to Voldemort, who is 
neither adult nor human. 

I'm sure that JKR won't cheat us of the blazing wands confrontation 
most of us want, but I don't think that's going to be how 
Harry *wins*. In every book so far  Harry has  learned
to replace  a childish attitude or behavior  with a more mature one, 
which, almost incidentally, allows him to survive the final
confrontation. I want him to be able to do all this the way he's
done it all along, that is, despite being disappointed in his father 
figures.

I want to see him start relating to Snape as an adult, which is not,
IMO, "I'll display mature behavior when he does." It's  "I don't
need Snape to be mature  about me in order to be mature
about him. I am going to be fair and objective, not because it's 
something Snape deserves, but because  I can't be  fair if I'm
not objective, and I won't be a fair person if I only treat some 
people fairly." And I think it will be a  revelation to Snape if 
Harry treats him this way. 

I would like to see Harry realize that he doesn't need to punish his 
oppressors to feel empowered against them. And that will be a 
revelation too.
 
Lupinlore: 
> I tend to agree that Harry will not have a single "father figure" in
> the classic sense.  That does not mean that there will not be
> development, and clarification, in some of the potential "paternal"
> relationships he does have.  As I say, Dumbledore has perhaps the
most potential for growth in this aspect of his characterization, and
Lupin certainly has the most need, as a character, for such
development. 

 If, as the veils of mystery surrounding so much of the plot and
 characters fall away, these relationships do not show further
development, it will be very sad.  Such a wastage of potential
would, unfortunately, be true to life, but not at all pleasant or
interesting to read about.  That, I think, would come close to 
"spoiling the story from the reader's point of view" -- at least 
from the point of view of this reader.
> 

Pippin:
I think it's Snape who will reveal unexpected potential, while Lupin
will be seen to have wasted his, just as he wasted his opportunity 
to be DADA teacher. But the story is about the kids, as Jo keeps
saying--IMO, for Harry to transform any of  the adults  in 
some Pollyanna-ish way would be jumping the shark*.

It seems to me some readers feel the absence of a 
happy childhood so keenly that they  want to keep Harry a 
child into what the WW considers adulthood so that he could have
a chance to experience it, but I think Dumbledore's behavior in 
OOP showed us the folly of this. 

Pippin
* from television -- the moment, often marked by a
radical plot-twist, when a fan realizes that a series has 
gone into irretrievable decline.