Would an "O" for Harry vindicate Snape?

[hickengruendler]

No: HPFGUIDX 131469

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "horridporrid03" 
<horridporrid03 at y...> wrote:
 
> 
> Betsy Hp:
> Okay, I'll bite.  But first I have to ask, what abusive methods?  
> Making Harry call him sir?  Demanding potions be done correctly?  
> Disliking class disruptions?  Throw some canon at me, because I 
> seriously don't know what you're talking about when you 
say "abusive 
> methods".
> 
> And yes, if a teacher's students learn what the teacher is teaching 
> I'll call that effective.
> 
> Betsy Hp

Hickengruendler:

The only part where I would call Snape abusive is the scene with 
Neville's toad. I find this mentally abusive towards Neville, even if 
Snape didn't really plan to poison Trevor (which I admit is 
possible). Even making Neville think that he would kill his beloved 
pet is clearly crossing the line, IMO. Here Snape's possible reason 
(making Neville learn Potions) does not justify his means, because 
they were way to harsh, IMO.

I also wanted to mention the comment regarding Hermione's teeth, but 
it was not really abusive just mean. It does illustrate IMO, however, 
that at least some of Snape's mean methods/remarks can not simply be 
explained by trying to make the students learn Potions, because this 
remark does not fulfill any purpose except to humilitate Hermione. 
That proves that Snape does have a sadistic streak, and IMO that's 
the reason for most of his behaviour in the classroom as well. Sure 
he is frustrated that some students won't learn, either because they 
are not able to or because they don't want, but as a teacher it is 
his profession to deal with those problematic cases, and scaring the 
students is not the way to go.

I do think he gets his class to learn and that the standard in the 
Potion-OWLS will be very high, there's no doubt he knows his subject, 
but I still think the methods he uses are wrong, no matter if you 
want to call them abusive or not. At least in Neville's case they 
are. He obviously blossoms at those teachers the most, who are nice 
and encourage him (Lupin and Harry, especially) instead of sneering 
at him and insulting him. Therefore if it Snape's aim to teach 
Neville Potions that way, he failed, since his mere presence is a 
handicap for Neville.

By the way, I do not think that the fandom will ever agree in this 
point, not even after HBP. If Neville get's an OWL in Potions, which 
I think he will, there are two possible explanations, which both can 
be seen as accurate depending from which point you look at it.

a.) Snape's teaching methods did have some success in the end, 
because Neville passed the OWL. Snape's lessons are hard, but so is 
life and Neville has to master this as well. The Potion OWLs are a 
step in the right direction.

b.) It's a proof that Snape's teaching methods are not sucessfull, 
since Neville only is able to get it right, when Snape is not there. 
Therefore this could be seen as a reason that Snape is bad for 
Neville and holds him back, and Neville only is able to master 
Potions (and life) when Snape isn't there to undermine his self-
confidence.

Both reasonings obviously have some truth in them and it's impossible 
to disprove either one, but I won't deny that I will be in the second 
group. ;-)

Hickengruendler