Snape's abuse (Re: Would an "O" for Harry vindicate Snape?)

[Chris]

No: HPFGUIDX 131554

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Irene Mikhlin 
<irene_mikhlin at b...> wrote:
> 
> --- John Kearns <jmkearns at g...> wrote:
> 
> >  Probably he is, and we just haven't seen it. 
> 
> But we have seen it. Dumbledore has drawn a very clear
> line at physical harm to the students, and we've seen
> that it gets him very angry at OoTP.
> 
> By the looks of it, Dumbledore (and Hogwarts culture
> in general) is significantly less sensitive to
> emotional abuse, however it's defined.
> 
> Can anyone honestly say that any emotional "abuse"
> that Snape might have inflicted is worse (or even
> equal) than the detention in the Forbidden Forest for
> 11-year olds? McGonagall has assigned it, in case
> anyone has forgotten.

Chris: I can and will, from two different points of view, one from a 
WW point of view, and one from reality. **flips a coin**...ah heads, 
WW point of view first:

   These kids are wizards!!!!! The forbidden forest detention would 
have been scary yes, dangerous perhaps, but cause for permanent 
emotional damage to any one of these kids? I don't think so. Fear is 
the one emotion that we as humans seem to overcome the easiest. We 
are all scared of monsters, the dark, strangers, etc. etc. when we 
are small children, but eventually we outgrow these fears, and they 
have no lasting emotional damage. 
   After the detention occurred, I'm sure Mcgonagall wrung her hands 
in sorrow that she had sent them out there. But she didn't know that 
Quirrelmort was lurking about in the trees, did she? The kids had 
Hagrid with them, and he is quite adept at dealing with anything that 
*naturally* belonged in that forest, isn't he? In hindsight, everyone 
can look back at the event and say it might not have been the right 
call, but WW parents are not going to yank their kids from school 
over it. 

   Now the real world. There has been a lot of discussion on here 
(some very heated from what I've read) about the teaching methods of 
Snape, about how *good* or how *evil* this house is, or that person 
is. If we want to talk reality where all this is concerned, let's 
talk reality.

   I confess ingorance as to how other schools in other parts of the 
world discipline their students, and how other cultures respond to 
abusive behavior, criticism, and the treatment of their children by 
other adults. I do say this though. I have two daughters. If I 
existed in the WW, and Snape treated my daughters the way he treats 
students in this story, he would have an AVADA KEDAVRA with his name 
on it!

   There is no teacher in any school that my daughters are attending 
going to belittle them, threaten physical harm, or in any way cause 
them emotional stress. Piling on homework causes stress, and that's 
fine. Good for them in fact...teaches responsibility. But to 
criticize or verbally chastise a student in the presence of others is 
wrong. Teachers are supposed to boost a student's confidence, give 
them praise where it is due, and criticism and instruction where it 
is not. I for one do not cater to the idea that if Neville's frog had 
perished after being fed the potion, he would have learned a valuable 
lesson and tried harder next time. This is not the way to instruct a 
student to do better.
   I had my share of callous, egomaniacal, holier-than-thou teachers 
in school too. One of them is now a good friend of mine. They 
commanded respect, self-discipline, manners, and good behavior. And 
they got it! Not because we feared them, and not because they berated 
us and criticized us at every opportunity. But because they deserved 
it for rewarding us with the same treatment they expected.
   
   The reason the American school system is in such a shape is 
because the kids nowadays are little monsters before they ever enroll.
Disrespecting adults, bullying others for sport, and general 
misbehavior...these things are the result of behaviors taught or not 
taught at home. Unless the child has an emotional problem there is no 
reason to behave this way. Draco is the perfect example...every 
behavior he exhibits was one taught to him by his parents. Racism and 
prejudice are not inborn traits, they are LEARNED!
   Yes, now the teachers have rules that prevent them from laying a 
hand on a student. But can you blame them?! You grab a child by the 
collar of his shirt to stop him from running in the hall...next day 
he brings a .45 to school and conducts target practice. This is what 
the teachers have to contend with nowadays. 
   But how did that student get that way in the first place? In most 
cases of extreme violence in schools, the kids were either outcasts 
ridiculed by the other students, or they had parents that didn't give 
a damn, or they were emotionally unbalanced. I like the stories about 
violent music, and violent video games, and violent imagery from 
movies being the root cause. But let's be real people! I played 
violent video games, I listened to death metal, and I've seen the 
Matrix twelve times. I however, not shot up a school. Probably 
because I knew better. I never beat a smaller kid up, though I am a 
third degree black belt. Because I was taught better. I never 
ridiculed a fellow student, or made fun of someone because of their 
appearance, because I was taught better. 
   This is the problem in our schools. These kids are not taught 
better! The bully, the group of jocks who gives a wedgie to a nerdy 
kid, the prep teen queen who makes fun of a poorer girl...these kids 
were not taught anything by their parents!


   I think throughout these books, Harry and the rest have shown 
incredible restraint when dealing with Snape. Yes, Harry has erupted 
a few times, but I would have done the same thing if I were in his 
shoes. And I pray...pray...pray...that those of you who have espoused 
Snape's teaching methods on here are not teachers in your respective 
areas of the world. God help all those students if you are.

Chris
labmystc