Snape's abuse (Re: Would an "O" for Harry vindicate Snape?)

[Tonks]

No: HPFGUIDX 131584

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "prncssme" <prncssme at y...> 
wrote:
> > Lupinlore said:
> > Are you saying that people who battle abuse and insist that 
abusive behavior be halted are weaklings deserving of contempt?  
(snip)> 

> Princess Sara said:
> I think what Tonks is saying is that compared to say, Umbridge, 
the problem of Snape's occasional mean remarks is relatively small. 
Umbridge is physically AND emotionally abusive in ways that make 
Snape look like a fluffy bunny of a man. (snip)> 
> Can we please stop accusing each other of supporting or endorsing 
abuse? 

Tonks:
Thank you Princess Sara. I especially like thinking of Snape as a 
fluffy bunny. ;-) 

Lupinlore I know that you love to argue for the fun of it. Of course 
I, and I am sure everyone else on both sides of this debate, do not 
condone abuse of any kind.  That goes without saying, IMO.

What I am arguing is that Snape fits (as some say) in the *shades of 
gray area*.  I don't know anything about the modern U.S. school 
system and what the rules are there.  And since Harry Potter does 
not attend a U.S. school, I do not think that information is 
relevant anyway.  I am thinking about when I was a child and life in 
general.  Even very nasty people who do seriously emotional abuse 
(think Umbridge) are not prosecuted for it because as far as I am 
aware it is not against the law anywhere (WW, MW, RW).  Physical 
abuse is against the law in our RW, but I am not aware of emotional 
abuse being so.  I suspect that is would be hard to prove.  What is 
emotionally abusive to one may not be to someone else. (Does that 
mean that it is OK to be like Umbridge, of course not.)

When I say that Snape is sometimes emotionally abusive I am thinking 
of someone like Neville.  Neville is not your typical child.  He 
grew up in a negative environment at home as far as I can tell.  His 
grandmother doesn't seem like the nurturing type.  And Neville seems 
especially sensitive.  When he was younger, you could probably just 
look at him crossways and he would burst into tears.  Yes, it would 
be nice if Neville had a loving nurturing teacher, but it has been 
my experience that those types of teachers are rare.  And very rare 
once you get past the 3rd or 4th grade or so.  By then you are 
expected to be tougher.  Some like Neville are not.  I understand 
that.  Some are like Neville their whole life.  Does that mean that 
when they get out into the real world and have a job and a jack
s  
for a manager that the manager should be fired?  My answer to that 
would be yes.  But does that happen??  Very, very rarely and when it 
does it is because they found some other way to hang them.  

In the ideal world we would all be nice, kind, caring and loving 
people.  But we are not. Even caring people say and do stupid things 
at times without realizing the impact it might have on someone 
else.  The best place for the Nevilles of the world to learn to deal 
with emotionally abusive people is when they have supportive friends 
to help them and at an age when learning interpersonal relations is 
easier.  If he is surrounded only by loving and nurturing teachers 
during his whole school career, then he is going to be in for an 
even ruder shock when he gets out into the real world.  And when he 
gets out into the real world his school friends will be gone and he 
will have no skills to cope and could become one of those who end up 
putting a gun to his head. That is an extreme thought perhaps, but 
it can and does happen.  

I am not saying that one should go out of their way to hire nasty 
teachers. Basically what I am saying is that on a scale of one to 
ten with one being Molly and ten being Umbridge, I think that Snape 
is about a 5.  And a 5 is OK.  (I think that very few of us are a 
one on any regular basis. Most of us are probably a 4.)  So Snape at 
a 5 is strict, no nonsense, with a bit of sarcastic wit perhaps.  
And most of the kids can handle it.  And with a little help so can 
Neville. 

One final thing.  Remember how the rest of the staff responded to 
Umbridge? Then think of how they interact with Snape.  If Snape was 
really all that bad don't you think that we would see the rest of 
the staff treating him the same as they do Umbridge?  But they 
don't.  And on this point, I rest my case. 

Tonks_op