[HPforGrownups] Snape's abuse (Re: Would an "O" for Harry vindicate Snape?)

[Shaun Hately]

No: HPFGUIDX 131645

On 29 Jun 2005 at 4:39, lupinlore wrote:

> No, we can't.  Those who endorse or defend Snape's methods (and I know
> Tonks is not, but some do) ARE endorsing and defending the emotional
> abuse of children.  Sorry if that stings, but I'm not going to quit
> speaking the truth just because their are some who are uncomfortable
> hearing it.

Well, let me just say this that I was a child who as a result of his 
schooling became suicidal for two years, and deeply clinically 
depressed for about ten years, who became a chronic achiever in terms 
of his education for about five years, and who still bears 
significant physical and emotional scars from some of his 
experiences.

And I had some very nice, kind, very compassionate teachers. And I 
had some who were extremely Snape-like.

And the nice, kind, compassionate teachers were the ones who almost 
*KILLED* me, and the Snape-like teachers were front and centre of the 
ones who *SAVED* me.

I don't go so far as to endorse Snape's methods as a teacher - I'm 
training to be a teacher myself at the moment, and I would never use 
many of the methods he uses because I think there are better ways of 
teaching. But, even though I don't endorse them, I'm always more than 
a bit disturbed when I see people condemning them.

Whether a particular child is 'abused' by a particular method of 
teaching, is often dependent on that child's individual personality. 
Methods that seriously harmed me are ones that many of my classmates 
greatly benefitted from. Methods that I benefitted from were ones 
that I can easily see harming other children.

The reality is that there are no miracle methods in teaching. There 
may be some methods that are *generally* better than others - but 
there's no perfect style of teaching. Some kids do well with strict, 
even nasty teachers. Some kids need love and affection and the gentle 
touch. A school should have a range of different teacher.

If Snape was the *only* teacher at Hogwarts, or if *all* the teachers 
at Hogwarts taught the way he did, then I'd have very serious 
concerns for the pupils - but as one teacher in a range - I really 
don't see a major problem with him.

It's true that Snape's methods do seem to be inappropriate for 
Neville - but Neville is one child in a school of somewhere from 280 
to 1000 students (depending on what school of thought you subscribe 
to). I attended eight schools as a child with a range of different 
philosophies, including two that are regarded as among the best 
schools in my country - and at none of those eight schools were 
*every* teachers methods appropriate for *every* single student. I 
often found myself as the one among many for whom the 'standard' 
methods which a particular teacher used didn't work - but I won't 
condemn a teacher just because their methods don't work for a small 
number of children - if those methods are working for a lot of 
children.

The first question in my opinion is whether Snape's methods work for 
any of the kids in his classes - and we do have indications that his 
results are quite good. Looking at the original question - would an 
'O' for Harry vindicate Snape? Well, provided that 'O' came from 
Snape, it'd go some way to that - but I'd be more interested in 
knowing how most of the students went. Snape's methods shouldn't be 
condemned on the basis of whether or not they are less than ideal for 
one or a few children - but nor should they be condoned on the basis 
of whether they work for a few. It's the overall effect that matters.

Now having said that, unless Neville gets a good mark, there's no way 
I would condone Snape's treatment of him - even if Snape's general 
methods can be condoned, a good teacher should make changes where 
needed - so if Neville's marks do not reflect what he is capable of, 
then Snape should not have done what he did. But there's a difference 
between talking about Snape deals with individuals - and how he 
teaches overall.

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia