[HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione's a liberal

[Kathryn]

No: HPFGUIDX 125595


 
GEO: I really don't see your reasoning. The elves know no other way
of life. They have never been given any other choice but slavery and
servitude. If they are fully aware of all their choices and still
continue to serve wizards then what Hermione is doing is wrong, but
the elves haven't experienced or known freedom so Hermione can only
be right.
 
K
Riight - and I've never known the what it's like to skydive but I'd sure as
heck protest if someone threw me out of a plane. As I said earlier we have
seen three individual house elves. Two of them have exercised a certain
amount of choice - Kreacher and Dobby, both are reasonably content with
their choices and the consequences. One had no choice at all and is now
horribly depressed. Hermione is tryig to make the choices for the elves -
she's not respecting them as sentient beings at all.

What Hermione is doing is exchanging one kind of slavery for another. If she
campaigned to change the laws so that house elves cannot be forced to work
for a family if they do not want to then that would be something I would
applaud. But she is trying to forcethe house elves to conform to what she
feels they should be rather than allowing them to do what they want.
Hermione is imposing her views on others and completely disregarding their
wishes


>  Hermione is a perfect example of the type of person who in the
nineteenth
> century would travel to Africa or the Pacific Islands and try
and 'civilize'
> the natives by insisting they conform to the person in question's
ideas of
> morality and, usually, Christianity.
 
GEO: Better example would be the present situation of America and
the UK in the Middle East and especially Iraq. They're trying to
rewrite a wrong and bring their ideals to a place that has long been
ignored and exploited using less than noble methods in a world that
no longer cares. I for one believe that what both are doing is right
though others can see that it's wrong because of the methods and
that the exploited seem relatively happy in their minds. However
consider this: slavery is something that the majority of humanity
has condemned, should wizards be allowed to practice this on a group
of clearly sentient beings just because they are isolated and
different from Humanity?
 
 
K

Could you explain you point here again because I'm reading this as you
saying that imposing values of 'civilization' and religion on people who
were doing *perfectly* well beforehand was right because the poor little
natives just didn't know any better, and I'm sure that can't be what you
meant. I have no problem with the missionaries saying 'hey this is what I
believe, whaddya think?' but no one has the right to force their will or
opinion upon another person. If the House Elves *do not* wish to be free
then by insisting that they *must* be then you are not giving them any kind
of 'right' you are simply saying that instead of blindly obeying their
masters they should blindly obey you. I do not believe slavery is right -
but the House Elves need to be given the option, if they *want* to stay as
they are they should be given that choice. I have *never* said Hermione's
aims are necessarily wrong, just her methods. By saying that she has the
right to choose for them then Hermione is saying she is better than them. 

Surely any sentient being has the right to live as they wish provided that
by doing so they are not harming anyone else? By definition if the House
Elves wish to continue as they are (and most of them seem to, and don't give
me that argument about not knowing any better, they interact with 'free'
wizards every day, they can see what the alternative is perfectly well) then
it isn't slavery.

K

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