Wizard supremacy (was:Re: Nel Question #4: Class and Elitism)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 125892


>>Betsy:
>After all, the Muggles beat the Wizards several centuries ago.  Why 
would today be any different?<
 
>>a_svirn:
>What are you referring to? Where did JKR answer this question?<

Betsy:
Every piece of Wizarding history given to us by JKR speaks to a large 
calamity that occured back around the middle ages and ended in a mass 
retreat of the entire Wizarding World.  The entire WW revolves around 
keeping their existence secret.  This is not the actions of a 
victorious people.

When the wizards went into hiding, they were also given the right to 
carry their wands with them at all times, including the quidditch 
pitch.  This is not a routine percaution.  Can you name *any* country 
in the world where the citizens are encouraged by their government to 
go about armed at all times, even in the middle of a sporting event?  
Again, these are not the actions of winners.

>>a_svirn:
>And what do we know about those "dark days"? Entirely too little to 
make any kind of assumption.<

Betsy:
We know quite a bit actually.  We know that things were bad enough 
that the only school of Witchcraft and Wizardry in Britian was built 
in a remote area, hard for anyone to reach.  (Remember, this was 
before floo powder.  And so far there's no evidence a wizard can 
apperate with a passenger.  Getting children to the school must have 
been a major effort.)  We know the times were bad enough to be 
refered to as "dark" and "bloody".  We know that wizards were so 
desperate to avoid the notice of Muggles they opened negotiations 
with magical folk they did not fully trust (goblins, mermaids, 
centuars, etc.).  And we know that the end result was a full out 
retreat with the goal of not only disappearing but to arrange things 
so that magic never appeared to exist.  You put all of this together, 
it's pretty clear that Muggles were such a large threat they drove 
Wizards underground.

>>Tammy:
>Muggles could conceivably end up enslaving wizards.<
  
>Betsy:
>It would be relatively simple.  "Mr. Weasley, we have your wife and 
children hidden in an undisclosed location.  Here are their broken 
wands as proof.  No harm will come to them if we have your support in 
<fill in the blank>."<

>>a_svirn:
>Well, it's simple all right. But unless it's a message from DEs or 
other dark wizards I don't see it happening.<

Betsy:
Why?  There are Special Operation groups from all over the world who 
could *easily* infiltrate the Burrow and subdue and capture any 
Weasley on premise before a wand was drawn.  The Burrow doesn't have 
any warning system against Muggles, Mrs. Weasley isn't combat 
trained, neither are the children.

This kind of operation is an example of the Muggle professionalism 
and scientific efficiency I mentioned up thread.  A specially trained 
group, doing what they do best, going up against a housewife and some 
school children: no contest.

>>kjirstem (message # 125890) :
>As far as how can scientific efficiency hurt wizards, I don't know
what Betsy was thinking but here's what occurs to me. There are
a lot of Muggles trained in the sciences and if the WW was perceived
as a problem then money and people would be allocated toward solving
that problem. Not necessarily a nice thing, but there you have it.<

>>GEO (message # 125889) :
>GEO: Scientific efficiency namely a massive industrial base capable
of creating tanks, guns, planes and ships quickly and efficently
would be quite capable of hampering wizards.<

Betsy:
I was thinking of both your and GEO's examples, Kjirsem.  I would add 
the specialization of skills, and a logical, systematic way of 
tackling the perceived threat.  Lupinlore made a great point about 
Squibs in message # 125871.  They'd be an excellent source of 
information, and that information would be poured over until every 
weakness was identified and fully understood.  I would imagine it 
would not take long until there were Muggle military and scientific 
groups specilizing in different aspects of the Wizarding World.

>>Betsy:
>I agree with what Jim Ferer wrote in 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/125763

>>a_svirn:
>Yes, I agree with Jim Ferer too.  Don't see how this statement 
advances your argumentation about weak wizards and strong Muggles 
though.<

Betsy:
Oh, I was just agreeing with Jim that if the WW was revealed, it 
wouldn't take long for suspicion and distrust to set in and 
eventually for some sort of conflict to breakout.  It doesn't go 
towards my argument, but it does set out that a war would probably 
occur.

Betsy, who snipped and reordered things quite ruthlessly.